this is a motoring forum, this is a motoring thread. so of course we care. once again just incase you missed it.
<-----------------------general is that way, dont let the door hit you on the way out
maximus56,
Jun 7, 3:27pm
That was really telling them
intrade,
Jun 7, 3:32pm
from the 1990s from 4.8 to 6.0 liter per 100km dieselmost economical are no 1 fiat uno dieselfollowed by citroen AX diesel followed by ford fiesta diesel followed by daihatsu charad Dieselthe citroen also shared the same engine with some peugeots in the 2000+ it is the volkswagen lupo tdi holding the worldrecord of 2.99 liter per 100km diesel.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 7, 9:47pm
VW Plug in Diesel Hybrid goes into limited production soon. 900ml per 100km. Not sure if you could import one here on not though (regulation wise) and I doubt it would be an economical proposition to do so given the cost of purchase and that you would still have to pay diesel tax.
wrong2,
Jun 7, 10:25pm
the better way of looking at it is :
most economical 100 hp car
most economical 150 hp car
most economical 200 hp car
ect, ect, ect
i like to passtraffic with impunity at any gap that arises & still get where im going cheaper than the plodding nanas
wrong2,
Jun 7, 10:27pm
in other words :
a sub 5L/100 km car more than likely can only crawl
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 7, 10:36pm
Thats old thinking, you need to consider it on actual performance (i.e use 0-100 times etc). HP doesn't mean much with proper economy cars as they benefit from measures that reduce parasitic drag, weight etc and get a lot more bang from their small HP.
It would make sense to split it into sizes though as a super economical 2 seater is no help if you need a people mover.
Incidentally sub 5l/100km cars are not usually the fastest in the bunch but they don't necessarily have to crawl either. The Golf Bluemotion that does 3.8l/100km still does 0-100 in about 11 seconds and tops out at 190 km/h.
Thats still a very usable amount of power for a family car in NZ conditions and its on the very limit of what can be currently achieved in a practical production car economy wise.
wrong2,
Jun 7, 11:15pm
old thinking !. . . . . . no
its "i want to be able to pass whenever the need arises" thinking
diesels with their hi torque are a different matter (& the mk6 bluemotion is a very good example of super economy with highway cruising ability - the first one = not really)
looking at how economical your car is for the power it makes allows a more realistic performance comparison to be made across sizes of cars & engines
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 8, 2:59am
You don't get it do you! (That's O.K because morrisman didn't understand either) HP dosn't really mean anything because it dosn't take into account the weight of the car, parasitic drag or aerodynamics.
In a regular car its hard enough to get an idea of performance from HP but when it comes to extreme economy vehicles with their clever ways of making themselves economical it gets even more confusing.
Some examples so you can better understand:
* Parasytic drag This covers things like electric power steering vs regular power steeiring. Just by having electric power steering performance is improved by about the same amount as carrying one less small adult passenger. Thats because your engine power is not being sapped by the power steering pump.
This is one example only and some of the more clever cars utilize more of these than others. Each improvement in isolation may not seem much but there is a considerable list of improvements manufacturers can choose from and not all manufacturers utilize these things as well as others. Thats what gives rise to the performance variations which you can't pick up from looking at a HP rating. BTW, I have not made a big deal out of weight as I am assuming you are at least taking that into account in some kind of vague fashion.
* Aerodynamics, when you get into economy cars those that have the swept "boat tail" style backs have quite an economy advantage. Your "get out and pass" mentality is effected by that significantly as this affects you at passing speeds most. Not all economy cars use this technology as it can have implications when it comes to visibility.
Drag is a key reason why people who have not driven a MK2 Punto don't understand how it can be faster than most of the bigger engined super mini's it competes against even when they have the same or more power. Measures like less weight, a vasty more efficient transmission, clever aerodynamics and electric power steering allow it to do a lot with very little HP. The interesting thing is it still performs well even when loaded (thanks to the transmission). You obviously understand about high torque diesels, well with the CVT its much the same effect. Being able to hold peak torque or peak power gives you usable torque and hp well above that of cars with 4 speed auto's.
0-100 times give you the best rough estimate of performance because its a nett figure that takes almost all variables into account.
In an ideal world they would also provide 80-120km/h figures and loaded vs empty figures but none the less the 0-100 time still gives you the best guide out of any figure when held in isolation.
wrong2,
Jun 8, 3:04am
^ obviously some feel that way
i dont
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 8, 3:12am
Classic example of "the earth is flat" mentality. It dosnt matter how you "feel" about physics the results are always the same. I give up, Have fun trolling.
ema1,
Jun 8, 3:13am
Our poor diesel fuel quality would be the stumbling block I reckon jazz.
wrong2,
Jun 8, 3:15am
& the Golden OpinionedJazz retires
does it really bite that hard when your not made to feel all clever & special when you say obvious things that miss the point !
have a nice night , come back & miss the point tomorrow
ema1,
Jun 8, 3:16am
Perhaps you'll find a gap in the ground sooner with that kind of thinking, I suppose you do the same thing going through 30km/h roadworks area's as well .eh!
wrong2,
Jun 8, 3:20am
my insinuation senses are tingling
ema1,
Jun 8, 3:45am
Tingling. strewth that's bad pal.wouldn't want to be a passenger when you are driving.you might just misjudge the gaps !
wrong2,
Jun 8, 3:47am
cant misjudge things when your out driving - thats how crashes happen
prehaps i could teach you how not to be one of the normal muppets we are cursed with in NZ
doug207,
Jun 8, 5:31am
I have 100hp/600cc and 5L/100km, not too bad I suppose!
3tomany,
Jun 8, 6:03am
just done a trip this weekend and my falcon did 7.9 litres per 100ks i guess that makes small cars pretty bad but bear in mind max speed all weekend was 104 and we were lucky to go over 90 most of the time as that seems to be the new standard of kiwi driving
ema1,
Jun 8, 6:05am
I have a 3litre Toyota Avalon 2001 as one of my cars and last big round south island trip end of April returned a figure of 8.2litre/100km Good for a big comfy car, mind you I wasn't in a hurry anywhere. I've had cars with about 2/3rds the capacity use more than that in similar trips. Yep Fish .the bigger cars are effortless for sure.
3tomany,
Jun 8, 6:07am
hey fish 11 hours from palmy to home yesterday economical but i would rather have two more hours sleep. stuff fuel economy tired drivers are dangerous drivers arnt they lol
moosie_21,
Jun 8, 7:49pm
I posted a link a week ago that stated that average highway speeds have decreased significantly since a decade ago. Yes, this country is turning into a bunch of nanas, if it didn't do so quite awhile ago.
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