Jazz and VW's. Jazz you will remember the mint condition 2005 mk 5 golf i had bloody nice car drove well and in very origina
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thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 2:54am
BTW, Exceptions to the rule. regardless of make and country of origin there are of course some cars that have known faults that are worth avoiding or being well aware of.
Toyota Diesels are one, pretty much every one of them is going to crack a head in its lifetime. Thats worth taking seriously.
Citroen C5's, Honda Jazz's and other cars with automatic transmissions that don't have replaceable oil filters and are prone to premature failure.
Alfa/Fiat's with Selespeed transmissions
You get the idea. Just like checking for signs of previous maintenance, looking at the km's on the clock etc Taking the time to research a model and looking for any serious notable faults is always sensible. Trouble is you have to sort out the real from the imagined.
ema1,
Feb 15, 2:54am
Well Jazz the $$$ factor is an important one for me and will be for most other NZders out there. Talking $500 more for fuel a year is a real random figure just plucked out of the blue .me old china. You don't need to have bugger all to go wrong in a euro car or infact any car to chew up the $500 you seem to have settled on but I'll bet you anything $500 will also get readily chewed up by vehicle off the road time which lots of euro's tend to have, including the accursed damn BMW i once owned as mentioned before. Have you heard of the old saying .TIME'SMONEY .and it couldn't be more true than it is today. Besides I don't like being held up by faulty cars it's bloody annoying and costly to boot and by having my share of Toyota's over the recent years I have had very few hold ups of any sort. Talking total cost of ownership .well that's cut and dried as far as I'm concerned and proven over many years and several hundred thousand kms of motoring, actually verging on millions of kms now almost.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 2:57am
No where is it written that every model, old and new from a manufacturer has to be perfect for the brand to be considered reliable.
If that was the case there would be no reliable manufacturers left.
Toyota has its Caviler, Ford has its Edsil and Taurus. you get my drift.
mugenb20b,
Feb 15, 2:58am
Cavalier is not made by Toyota, just like the Lexcen.
craig04,
Feb 15, 3:01am
If a manufacturer can't offer "sophisticated features" without them shitting themselves, then maybe they shouldn't.
Jazz, yes or no. Generally speaking, is a Corolla more reliable than a Golf!
ema1,
Feb 15, 3:03am
Strewth Jazz you tripped up on quoting the Cavalier .it isn't a Toyota design at all .it's a crappy GM USA Chevrolet product with which some shonky forced deal was done between the US GOVT GM and Toyota somewhere along the line. That's just a plain stupid statement right there Jazz.phhheeeeww I rest my case. I wonder why the Japanese and Korean car makers have made mighty big in roads on the North American market eh.perhaps the yanks are starting to wake up I reckon.
incar.,
Feb 15, 4:45pm
Jazz are you German!
richardmayes,
Feb 15, 5:01pm
No it's not made by Toyota, but it's their product, with their name on the front of it. He has a point there!
mugenb20b,
Feb 15, 5:03pm
No, it's not Richard.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 5:19pm
You beat me to it!
Its the perfect example of why the buying public need to do some due diligence before blindly buying on brand alone. That's why I chose it, the fact that Toyota didn't technically design/make is here nor there, all that matters is they were stupid enough to put their badge on it.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 5:36pm
LOL, Craig this is a prime example of the trap. You want a Yes/No answer that's completely out of context and will prove of no value unto itself.
Just because the the Corolla is technically slightly more reliable than the Golf (which I freely admit) does not mean the manufacturer is "shitting themselves".
It also does not mean that the car is unreliable enough to cause any more inconvenience to the end user than the Corolla. It simply means that when you rate things the vehicle with less features/components will always technically rate more reliable.
For some reason human beings struggle to be logical with regard to balance. The Golf offers excellent balance in terms of reliability/features/power/eco- nomy/safety/value for money.
Its the car with the best balance that generally provides the best in terms of total cost of ownership and practicality/convenience to the owner as well.
Unfortunately most humans seem to be adverse to wanting to process multiple aspects of an equation and devise a logical conclusion based on balance.
Humans also crave certainty, they will go with what is perceived as an advantage in certainty over what is logical and sensible almost every time.
In other words they will put trust in a statement like "buy this badge and you will save money" over anything that sounds like complicated analysis every time. Even when that statement is completely untrue.
NZ society has been peppered with these statements as a means for car dealers to sell vehicles with less safety/economy/features/value for money etc for decades. Most of the car dealers have bought into it themselves and don't even realise they are doing it, hence their genuine intentions regarding the issue. The result is public opinion has reached a tipping point and the illogical has become accepted as normal and sensible behavior.
To sum it up. if you want a yes/no answer the yes/no answer that actually matters is:
"Is the extra unreliability of the Golf vs the Corolla going to cost me enough in terms of inconvenience or any other factor or factors combined or separate to warrant giving up all the advantages the Golf has over the Corolla"
The answer to that is a categorical NO.
shelleigh,
Feb 15, 5:43pm
Those of you who have had trouble with Golf's, were they imported from Japan! Jazz I was speaking with a car salesman recently as I was hoping to take a Mk5 Golf wagon for a test drive but there are none :) Are plenty of hatches but they are just too small although I know the wagon isn't that much longer.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 5:51pm
1. No its not a "random" figure at all. Thats the difference in the official rated combined economy figures in dollar terms over 15'000km which is about the national average of vehicle milage per year.
2. Any 10 year old learning maths or science will tell you it dosn't matter how much you test one factor without a control group to compare it to your data means nothing.
This is exactly what you have done, like so many Toyota drivers you have busily been patting yourself on the back looking at all the reliability you have enjoyed (at the expense of other factors). Yet you have nothing to compare it to. The simple fact of the matter is the vast majority of modern vehicles are very reliable, but you have no means to gauge that.
One BMW from years ago does not make a control group.
For what its worth I have had dozens of European cars which will have likely done even more collective milage than your Toyota's and my reliability has overall been excellent as well. Mine were even the supposedly worst of the worst being cheaper older yet often sophisticated models. To make matters worse many of them were driven exclusively by my staff of enthusiastic young men who used to subject them to all manner of abuse.
incar.,
Feb 15, 5:55pm
It's the same as your stupid enough to wear the Vw badge high on your chest, so are you german! Or are you like the cavelliar!
cocabowla,
Feb 15, 5:57pm
but you're not a toyota diesel !
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 6:00pm
Shelleigh,
Please don't use more silly wives tails and "rules of thumb" in place of proper balanced assessment of a car. You have done a wonderful job of negotiating the baseless nonsense to date so please don't stop now.
Whether its from Japan or not is just one of many factors to carefully balance. It may or may not be a risk factor depending on the other factors in the equation.
To quote an extreme example, if you bought one from Japan that had 100km (I mean literally 100 not 100'000) on the clock do you think its going to realistically be any more unreliable than the same NZ new car with 100km on the clock!
What about 100'000km on the clock with full service records from Japan!
What about records showing the first service and km's not exceeding when the next service is due!
What about one that had clearly been driven a lot on salty snow covered roads with wear on the interior, different wheels, marks from where lots of accessories had been and no service records with 100'000km on the clock!
We have had many late model imported VW/Audi's in my family, we have only had one failure (which was minor and covered by manufacturers warranty).
Our good fortune had very little to do with the cars coming from Japan or Not. It had a LOT to do with selecting the right example.
shelleigh,
Feb 15, 6:04pm
Jazz I'm just simply asking a question out of curiosity.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 6:06pm
Did you need the length for ski's! You might possibly find the A3 Sportback gives you just enough extra length if thats the case. (Its a MK5 Golf wearing a different party dress).
Its not really going to have notably more total cargo space (if any) but its possibly a more suitable layout for skiing. Those are readily available.
What were your thoughts on the Passat wagon, if the Golf wagon is barely big enough then the Passat or Skoda would be the logical next step. Its still the same engines, equipment, transmission etc.
I would suggest going Diesel in the Passat and you will actually have lower running costs than the Golf and the 2.0 Diesel will give you much the same performance.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 6:08pm
Its right and fair to ask lots of questions, go for gold. The trouble with that question though is whichever answer you get be it yes or no is not actually in itself going to help you get the most reliable VW you can for the money.
Taken out of context its only going to be unhelpful.
Jazz, what I took from your long long long reply is that the answer to MY yes or no question is yes. Your rehashed question is not what I asked.
trdbzr,
Feb 15, 7:54pm
Don't let facts get in the way of jazz's delusional drivel, the fact that he somehow believes that thousands of car dealers, garage owners, mechanics, car warranty companies etc are all wrong and only he is right goes to show how delusional he really is.
After having a Mk1 Laser hatch years ago Jazz, I like the extra room in wagons. Ahough the Golf hatches have a good amount of room in the back. Have got skiis and kayaks. A hatch would be fine if just the two of us but if we took a couple of others, the extra room in a wagon would be handy. Had a look at a couple of Audi A3s but prefer the look of the Golf's. The Passats are a nice looking wagon - I wish VW put the same tail lights on the Golf wagons like they do on the Passats and Golf hatches instead of the boxy looking ones! Am not needing a big wagon though and honestly don't think I'd get one in my garage.
incar.,
Feb 15, 11:15pm
What I don??
carstauranga001,
Feb 15, 11:44pm
Well said.
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