Jazz and VW's. Jazz you will remember the mint condition 2005 mk 5 golf i had bloody nice car drove well and in very origina

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incar., Feb 16, 9:47am
thejazzpianoma wrote:

Pretty much you can make a car like Toyota do with the bare minimum of components and ancient technology. This might give you a tiny edge on reliability.

However in the case of Corolla vs Golf the Corolla uses 25% more fuel. So every owner of a Corolla is GUARANTEED to have to pay extra for every km they do. (Roughly $500 a year for the average kiwi)

The owner of the Golf might possibly have a fault at some point with one of the "extra" components but its highly unlikely that the cost associated will ever cover the difference in fuel economy.

incar, this statement is a joke, transmission repair on a golf $2500-3500, Abs pump $1000-2500, then you have all the other shit e.g. brake switch, window regs, sensors, ignition switches, rear main seals leaking, disc rotors, cooling system are always failing, suspension bushes, fuel pumps, diagnostic scanning, electrical issues,higher servicing cost, towage,the list goes on on on quite like Jazz himself, it??
trdbzr, Feb 16, 9:51am
Apart from having no balls, you seem to have no brain either MT, but theres a feature called search on your left. Hopefully you manage to find it and work out how to use it in atleast a week or two.
taurus61, Feb 16, 7:42pm
NZ FIGURES !
For the 12 months to October 2011, 98% of Suzuki drivers say they are satisfied* with their current vehicle. This is 6% points above the average and puts them ahead of Toyota, Honda, Ford and VW tied on 94%.

???The proportion of satisfied Suzuki drivers has increased by 4% over the last 12 months to 98%," says Elliott. "Suzuki satisfaction levels are currently 6% points above the average for the top 10 makes and 4% points ahead of Toyota, Honda, Ford and VW ??
thejazzpianoma, Feb 16, 8:37pm
Base model Corolla Auto is only $500 cheaper than a base model VW Golf DSG. The difference in purchase price is usually covered by the VW's fuel savings in about 12 months.

I havn't done an exact service comparison cost over time. However clearly neither have you. However its highly unlikely there will be any significant difference either way.

The Golf can have service intervals of up to 2 years, at which time filters etc are of similar cost to the Toyota. The only area I can think of where the VW requires a more frequent service with a possibly higher cost would be the DSG transmission with its 60'000km service interval.

This costs typically $500 to service at a main dealer, and can be serviced at home in about 20 minutes for about $200 if the customer wishes. You don't need any fancy equipment to service this properly.
kazbanz, Feb 16, 9:09pm
Hereing lies the problen guys. MY dealings with VW/Audi/BMW product are where people are trading them in. It invariably transpires that the people with these vehicles are doing so because they have had a succession of minoror major mechanical failures.
I'm not exagerating this or making it up and have the paperwork to support this statement.
In fairness I must say that a proportion of those trading in Jap cars are doing so because of A major mechanical failureSome being spectacular failures.--Case in point being the smokey grandis or the Mitsubishi CVT tranz that totally failed.
However its a lot more common that people simply feel the need to move up in size or down in size due to a change in circumstance or simply want to upgrade their cars.
Based on MY experience I'd conclude that euro cars break down a lot and jap cars are boringly reliable.
That doesn't explain the huge number of people who are utterly content with their euro cars and can't understand the fuss.
My latest conclusion is that euro buyers in NZ generally come from a higher income bracket. because of this they see the huge value of regular servicing They also are astute enough to know when they have bought a lemon and dump it.
The "lower" level of technology in the engines and boxes of jap cars seems more tolerant of streched service intervals so seems to lend itself to lower income levels.
How the whole euros break down a lot comes from the richer people selling the euro thats caused them issues and from euro's being expected to handle being under serviced like jap cars can
phillip.weston, Feb 16, 9:36pm
Not quite $500 difference between base model Corolla and base model Golf - currently the list price for the Corolla GX auto is $35990 which is $2500 less than the Golf. However the Corolla GX range is on special around the country for $28,990 for the automatic or $28,590 for the manual.
duggin, Feb 16, 11:21pm
2V!
mugenb20b, Feb 16, 11:37pm
You mean, 2CV! Or Deux Chevaux as it's commonly known. Fantastic little cars actually. I wouldn't mind having one myself and adding an aftermarket 4WD kit, suspension lift and mud tyres.
stevo2, Feb 16, 11:48pm
Kaz has it in a nutshell (again)
cocabowla, Feb 16, 11:50pm
stop , thief! lol
taurus61, Feb 17, 1:05am
Sorry
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 2:46am
Fair point!

Things seem to have moved in the last few days, when I checked only a couple of days ago the New Car listing on TM had $500 between them (you can probably look it up as I quoted the links)

I see now they have updated the price as you have mentioned to $2500 between them.

I must say that with the special now on, that pricing much better reflects what you are getting with the Corolla, with nearly 10K now between the auto Corolla and the DSG Golf that brings the Corolla a lot closer to what its actually worth and is almost reasonable buying for what you are getting.

Obviously if and when pricing returns to how it was a few days ago that value will evaporate again.

Perhaps Toyota read my threads!

Thanks for pointing this out PW.
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 2:49am
I was actually making underhanded insinuations about the french waiving surrender flags.

2CV is far to stylish for carstauranga to appreciate.

BTW, for me it would have to be the Maserati Engined Citroen SM every time!
duggin, Feb 17, 3:03am
Dare I use the words "more reliable" - given the nature of this thread!

Also like the light and big 15s - impressive, "threatening" cars.lol.
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 3:07am
Oh yes the 2CV is very reliable. not so much the SM.I would be expecting to tinker on a regular basis with the Maserati setup. but I would hardly be using it as an every day car and expecting reliability.

I really like the light 15's another beautiful design and very relaxed pleasant cruising on the open road. I thought they were very refined and behaved well at speed for their age.

I seem to remember hearing something about the original design breif for the 2CV involving a rough paddock, a certain speed and a basket of eggs. If the eggs remained intact they had the design right. might be a myth though.
duggin, Feb 17, 3:12am
R&D was also relatively simple in those days.

(That's the French - pragmatic.Was going to say "practical", then thought better of it.)
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 3:28am
LOL, yes it was. the other tests probably involved wine, baguette's and fluffy dogs (not necessarily in that order or at the same time). if it looks suitably stylish, allows close proximity to female passengers and gets you, your wine, cheese and other produce home safely. it would have to have been a success in France.
mugenb20b, Feb 17, 5:14am
I like 2CVs, but that one is ruined. Sorry. I like the 4WD versions better.
mugenb20b, Feb 17, 5:15am
Citroen SM was a brilliant super car in its day, but it's getting too old now. Too many problems unfortunately. A good tidy one will cost a fortune to buy.
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 5:31am
Definitely a case of doing a full restoration on one, I agree an original will likely need a lot of attention.
I disagree on price though. There was an absolute minter on here a while back for $45'000 which I thought quite reasonable. Tidy rust free ex U.S examples have come up on TM now and then for about 20K and I think I remember seeing them cheaper on ebay but havn't looked lately.

Sit the 45K top example next to an E Type, Torana, GT Falcon etc of the era and I think its looking pretty good. Considering the rarity and pedigree.
mugenb20b, Feb 17, 5:57am
And here I thought $45k was a rip off, but now that you compared them to the above cars, it actually seems reasonable. I never thought of comparing the SM with other cars purely because it was "just" a Citroen.

I know for a fact that I won't be able to own an SM or a 2CV any time soon, but as a "modern" classic, I wouldn't mind the BX19 diesel or the DOHC petrol version. It's just that I need to do a bit more research on how to replace the spheres. How to bleed, pressurise and depressurise the hydropneumatic system, etc. Sounds quite simple in theory, but having to diagnose problems and do the repairs is another story.

Man.this thread has gone off topic big time.sorry about that.
kazbanz, Feb 17, 11:47pm
Hey Jazz I just have to call you out on this one because clearly it WAS your personal experience but frankly I feel you screwed up.
Why On earth would you go for a genuine toyota part when allbut every alarm installer has CL motors for about every make/model for about $25.00 retail.!. Sorry dude but your do it yaself skills failed ya on that one
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 11:55pm
Parts were not ordered by me. That is what I would likely have done. That said I have a feeling that it was not an simple mechanisim so doubt the semi-universal ones would have suited.

Still, its pathetic that you should have to play around like that. The one and only advantage the Toyota is supposed to have is reliability and available parts.

Its one thing to spend a little bit of extra time and effort to get parts for say a Volvo where you are getting all the advantages of a cheap to buy, safe and luxurious vehicle in return for it. But pissing about like that for a Toyota is unacceptable.
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 11:59pm
More than happy for it to go off track, no panic there.

I am yet to deal with Citroen Hydraulics and would be interested to see whats involved. Like you from what I have heard its actually supposed to be pretty straight foward. I also have checked parts pricing for spheres etc from time to time and they seem very affordable on ebay.

I am very pleased with my little Xsara, its not got the fancy suspension but is a pleasure to work on, been faultless so far and is just so simple and straight foward to deal with. Very nice vehicle to travel in too and the fuel economy is very impressive.
thejazzpianoma, Feb 17, 11:59pm
More than happy for it to go off track, no panic there.

I am yet to deal with Citroen Hydraulics and would be interested to see whats involved. Like you from what I have heard its actually supposed to be pretty straight foward. I also have checked parts pricing for spheres etc from time to time and they seem very affordable on ebay.

I am very pleased with my little Xsara, its not got the fancy suspension but is a pleasure to work on, been faultless so far and is just so simple and straight foward to deal with. Very nice vehicle to travel in too and the fuel economy is very impressive.

BTW, yes I suppose it would be easy to think of the SM as just a Citroen I can see where you are coming from. On the other hand though its the high performance, rare version of one of the most iconic vehicles of last century.

My Torana/Falcon GT comparison was perhaps a bit cheeky as they are about the most over valued, over priced every day cars of that era.