Got a family member weighing up Toyota Aurion versus FG Falcon. Any thoughts on why they should go one way or the other!
Has also looked at Accord, Mazda6 and Mondeo, but not overly fussed on the engine selections available (says most seem under powered unless you get top spec, but then economy takes a hit in which case why not just get the bigger car).
Does a lot of open road, not too worried about space, just wants comfort, reliability and probably some passing power.
thunderbolt,
Jul 4, 7:26am
I have an 08 FG XR6 due for replacement and test drove the Aurion this week.
FG torque and rear drive seals the deal for me, fuel economy in the FG is good, even more so on the open road.
craig04,
Jul 4, 7:28am
I had both as rentals. The Aurion goes like a cut cat (straight line in the dry), but in my opinion, has too much power for a front wheel drive and absolutely no feeling to the steering. The FG in my opinion is an all round better car. My only complaint was the amount of knee room for tall drivers when getting in and out. Once seated, it's fine. Fuel economy for both was similar.
fordcrzy,
Jul 4, 7:28am
The FG is great. the only negative to the FG is a bit too much road noise from the rear.easily fixed. the aurion is pretty overpriced for what it is and the gearbox is bit average too.
also should look at the euros such as VW passat or even a skoda. yes i know i sound like azz but just sayin.
clark20,
Jul 4, 11:19am
Ifyou are going new, try the 2.0l ecoboost Falcons, wheels got a 14.8s 1/4 out of one, and open road driving it used 7.6L /100km. Thats OK if you are not towing big loads
smac,
Jul 4, 7:50pm
Thanks for the comments.
Think he's talking under $20k so probably 2008/2009 maybe.
Wow had never looked at the power of the aurion, bizarre.
timmo1,
Jul 4, 8:57pm
One of this months motoring magazines has a comparison of the three big cars- Aurion, Falcon and Commodore (SV6) and they are remarkably similar on paper in terms of performance, fuel consumption and room.
I think it would come down to how you like to drive and what you value in a car- The Aurion being a bit more sensible and refined, bigger but less involving, the Falcon and Commodore being fairly good all around, a bit more focused on the driver but lacking in quality and refinement in comparison.
richardmayes,
Jul 4, 9:05pm
Agreed - The Aurion is great for flooring it and dragging people away from the 100km/h traffic lights up the Hutt Road - but there are two flaws that stop it from being a good open-road driver's car like a Falcon:
1 - Being a VVTi engine the power is all top end, so it's like driving a giant 1300cc hatchback, don't get me wrong there is lots of power but only if you're in the right gear to get it. Or else you'll be waiting until it gets itself into the right gear, which takes a surprisingly long time.
2 - The handling is not really adequate, the performance of the engine is a lot better than what the rest of the car can really do.
Falcon if your friend is a keen driver.
Aurion being a Toyota is probably a much better built machine but the issues would frustrate a keen driver. it would be ok for someone who is not really interested in cars & driving, and just wants the ability to put the boot in from time to time.
amberjandal,
Jul 4, 9:20pm
Rear wheel drive vs front wheel drive , no contest really.
timmo1,
Jul 4, 10:06pm
Depends entirely on how it is driven. It may come as a surprise to you but many people don't drive a car at anything above 7/10ths so the FWD vs RWD comparisons are moot.
Better space/packaging and more efficient drivetrain are things that are apparent whenever you drive. The dynamics of RWD are only really apparent when driving harder.
richardmayes,
Jul 4, 10:58pm
If the Aurion had had stronger suspension, and a proper manual gearbox, and a manifold with six throttle bodies to give a decent throttle response so you could use the gearbox, I reckon it would have been a real weapon. A bit like driving a giant type-r Civic or GTi Golf.
It's a shame they settled for making it merely a V6 Camry.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 4, 11:27pm
As frdcrzy said, if you want power + economy + comfort VW is the way to go. Their super efficient FSI engines + the 6 speed DSG with no power sapping torque converter will give you what you are looking for.
A standard MK5 Golf 2.0 FSI will give you 0-100 in about 8.5 seconds and phenomenal economy both on the open road and around town. (like running a little 1.3 litre car).
You also get reliability, comfort, safety and equipment, service intervals are long and service requirements minimal.
If you are looking at up to 20K you could even consider a Turbo version (GTI or A3 Turbo) which will give you absolutely amazing performance yet the economy is still much the same.
You could also look at the bigger Passat and Skoda which have the same great engines and transmission. With the larger ones the scale begins to tip towards making it worthwhile to go for the Diesel version. You want the 2.0 Diesel if you do the 1.9 is too slow IMO whereas the 2.0 Diesel goes exceptionally well and suits the DSG transmission.
Go and drive one, set the economy meter to instant and see what I am talking about.
richardmayes,
Jul 4, 11:31pm
OP's friend is comparing two big cars, I don't think a Golf is likely to tick the same boxes!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 4, 11:35pm
If you read their post and my post you would have noticed:
"not too worried about space"
"You could also look at the bigger Passat and Skoda which have the same great engines and transmission"
smac,
Jul 4, 11:57pm
I quizzed him on the size thing and when he said not worried about space he was meaning between (for example) mondeo versus mazda, accord versus falcon etc.
I think getting down to the hatches would be a stretch cause they do have kids and when they travel together they're full.
I've just realised my own requirements are more or less the same. SO if I take my own findings I found the Golf (and Mazda 3) were just too small in the boot. I don't like having to load the car interior up.
Gotta say the Golf MKIV prices have certainly come down from when I looked last, but as above, it IS a small car. More room in my current Astra.
So going up the food chain with that engine is the Passat, but that's a much older car for the same money (as the Falcon for example).
The other thing in my head is longevity - both of us tend to buy and keep - I do about 30k a year and looking for something that will do me for 10 years or so. Call me old school but I just think a Falcon or similar will handle 400k (if I buy @ ~100k) on the clock better than a 2.0 direct injection petrol.
rovercitroen,
Jul 5, 12:04am
Great engines and transmissions! DSG! Guy at works wife's Golf with DSG just shat itself. Just inside warranty luckily. He got EMD involved and they replaced the whole DSG gearbox with a new one. They had them on the shelf as they have needed a few he was told. He was told by local VW dealer it would have been 10k if he had had to pay for it. Apparently the symptom was a whining noise and intermittent drive.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 5, 12:13am
You really need to get into the newer FSI engines if you can for the economy and better transmission. Its no problem if the Golf is too small though as the new shape Passat's and Skoda's (2005 +) are starting to show up from as little as 15K, so definitely available within budget.
You mentioned a Golf might be O.K with a boot in which case a Jetta (Golf with Boot) may be an option as well.
As for longevity, the way those newer VW's are built I would definitely rate them for longevity, those engines are supurb. Also, the transmission, remember its basically built like a manual and the clever two clutch system makes it very hard to abuse the clutches. Maintenance is easy and cheap to do on the transmission at home as well, very similar to maintaining a manual transmission as its just a drain and refilll, although you change a filter as well.
Remember too, those engines and transmissions (especially the Diesels) are also used in VW commercial vehicles where they have been proven to exceed the million km mark without problem, and do some seriously hard work.
Seriously, go and drive some. The Passat/Skoda IMO fits the criteria exactly.
countrypete,
Jul 5, 12:13am
Is the VW Golf a Falcon or an Aurion!
countrypete,
Jul 5, 12:15am
Unfortunately that's one of the weak points on the VWs.The DSG transmission, while perhaps on paper a good idea, just isn't up to it in a golf.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 5, 12:16am
Likewise I could quote many aquantences that have had Toyota, Ford, Mazda etc etc transmissions break. What matters is how often they break. When you look at the figures they break only as often as the basic Toyota 4 speed slush box.
We have had 4 now and all have been trouble free.
Same transmission is used for commercial applications, its hardly weak but because its different everyone feels the need to point out any they have heard of that have had a problem.
Don't forget you are talking about the most popular transmission in the world.
BTW, if it broke outside of warranty there are plenty of cost effective ways of repairing/replacing. You would get a similar scary quote from most dealers with new cars and automatic transmissions.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 5, 12:20am
Based on what! Its always the same old story on here, dare to mention anything that isn't Australian or Japanese and the knuckle draggers crawl on in, with opinions based on nothing.
In the nearly 10 years these transmissions have been around we havn't even had one person come on here first hand with a problem with one.
Trying to knock the DSG is just silly. The rumors are just silly slimy car dealer nonsense where they point to anything that might look like a failure and try to inflate it into an epidemic.
Truth is if you look hard enough you can find examples of any mechanical device failing. All that matters is the failure rate which in this case is very very low.
If you need an example of the sillyness, just look at the Toyota 1KZ Diesel. That has a massive failure rate with cracked heads. Yet because its part of the "accepted" vehicle group the good ole boy's just slap each other on the back and ignore it.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 5, 12:23am
Anyhow, enough from me. If I keep posting its only going to ruin your thread smac. Best of luck with it all.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 5, 12:35am
One more post since you enquired. It wasn't even a gearbox problem at all as it turned out. The trouble was actually the useless garage she took it to. They took a flying guess at the diagnosis, and just quoted an absurd price to replace the whole thing to cover themselves.
I never did find out exactly what it was in the end but it definitely wasn't the transmission at all, and got the impression it was something quite unrelated like a suspension bush or the like.
If you really are just put off by the transmission (and you shouldn't be) you could always buy a 6 speed manual one. There are a few around especially with the Skoda badged cars.
(BTW you can see from that thread how eager the knuckle draggers are to jump on anything that might turn out to be a problem with a DSG or VW)
Incidentally, if the DSG was no good I would be the first to say avoid it. Just as I don't recommend Fiat/Alfa's selespeed which really is a bit of a lemon.
smac,
Jul 5, 12:42am
Don't worry about ruining the thread, it's all information. Wasn't really my inquiry so it can go wherever it goes!
I don't really know how he has arrived at his short list of the two in the thread title, but I will throw the Skoda/VW idea at him and see what happens.
I suspect he'll be put off by the fact the same money will be buying a car 4-5 years older. Yes yes I know you'll say more car for the money etc, but if his criteria is "a 2008 or newer car for under $20k then he'll stop listening.
When people start saying the aussie cars are 'poverty pack' or 'basic' it cracks me up - what they're talking about are luxury items, and personally I don't miss power seats or heated cup holders.
Edit - oh and sorry for digging that thread up, didn't realise the end result, just remembered it being raised.
incar.,
Jul 5, 12:48am
Its too late you already have, in fact your the reason i hardly post on here!
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