Falcon vs Aurion

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richardmayes, Jul 5, 12:51am
Indeed - in a second or third hand car those sorts of things are not a "feature".

The ABSENCE of those unnecessary plastic / electric doodads and the FREEDOM from having to worry about the cost of fixing them when they crap out is a "feature".

I don't want to be the one holding the grenade when the timer runs out. If I only have to carry a box with 600 grenades in it, instead of a thousand, the odds of one of them going off on me are much less.
gedo1, Jul 5, 2:40am
HI Jazz.your opinion is always welcome I reckon but can I ask a favour!Don't abuse those who have as strong an opinion or attitude towards other makes of cars as you do towards Euros. All it does is cheapen the validity of your stance and hardens attitudes.Ignore the barbs and sarcasm and then your opinion rather than your attacks will be taken notice of. You must have seen from previous comments I have made that we have had a number of VW Golfs (and other Euro makes) but have now moved away from them because we have had problems of various types which I have explained here in the past. My wife (who is the motor expert between us as it was her career when we were living overseas) likes her Toyota sporty hatch - even prefers it to all the Golf Gtis she owned.Not necessarily for the performance though. So you see I don't see that makes her a knuckle-dragger for being that way inclined.Cheers
thejazzpianoma, Jul 5, 2:48am
I do actually see your point and have to admit years of having my opinion attacked on here has made me quite blunt.

I guess what annoys me most is there are some here who are just deliberately trying to be a nuisance. They bring up the same unjustified nonsense time and again which gets very tiring when you have to post the same links every time to prove that what they are saying is nonsense.

Its also important to point out that I am not calling all Toyota mechanic's and drivers "knuckle draggers" or "trolls" (although it can sound like it at times). Those who I am referring too really are "trolls" and just exist to to try and heckle me as opposed to making valid points. These types are also usually talking from zero first hand experience but feel the need to share their loud opinion about things they know nothing about anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for robust debate and discussion. What I don't enjoy is endless rebutting of wives tales. In other words, if you want to argue at least have some sort of verifiable point to your argument.

I will take what you have said onboard and try to temper my responses a little.
bellky, Jul 5, 2:54am
^ "I guess what annoys me most is there are some here who are just deliberately trying to be a nuisance." Oh wow, that is priceless.
bellky, Jul 5, 2:56am
There's no contest. One is worse than pig ugly and other is elegant in a masculine way. Prospective buyer can choose.
countrypete, Jul 5, 3:59am
Based on the Coke experience, it IS an epidemic when it comes to this transmission, in the Golf.

I suppose you could blame it on Suzuki, as Suzuki partly owns VW.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 5, 4:20am
1. Suzuki do not partly own VW.

2. Coke boughta whole batch of VW's right when they did have a problem with a short run of new generation DSG's. It was bad timing, its easy enough to avoid that run of cars if you wish to.
Coke/Amatil were clearly not bothered by the experience as they went on and bought another round of VW's when the newer models came out.

This is what I am talking about, the same old half truths twisted into something they are not from people who have no first hand experience and no understanding of what they are talking about.
smac, Jul 5, 4:27am
OK now you're (both) ruining the thread :)

Been doing some more reading on the competition. The size of so called 'mid sized' these days blows me away.

The likes of Mazda6, Mondeo etc are only about 20cm shorter than a Falcon. The modeo is WIDER than a Falcon.

WTF!
thejazzpianoma, Jul 5, 4:34am
Yes, medium/small cars have been steadily growing over the last 25 years. Its quite funny how Falcon/Commodore are still talked about as "Big Cars" when really they are pretty close to average size nowadays.

I also notice that while car companies have been growing the size of their standard models they have often created "new" smaller models and tacked them onto the range (if that makes sense).

For example, the Punto is now much larger but the Panda has been re-introduced as the new small model.

If you remember back to the 70's/80's you would have never considered a Honda Civic a family sized car, yet nowadays it would be just fine.

Incidentally, CC rating as a gauge of power has changed too. Some 1.2 and 1.4 litre cars will give you performance that you would have expected from at typical 2.0 car of the same size not so long ago.

BTW, I will stop engaging the trolls now.
countrypete, Jul 5, 4:42am
Sorry, but I just have to correct Jazz's misinformation.Suzuki Motor Corp purchased a 2.5% stake in VW in 2009 (or 2010).VW shares increased in value by 2.9% in Germany on the back of the announcement.http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/12/09/us-suzuki-volkswagen-alliance-idUSTRE5B80QV20091209) VW purchased a shareholding in Suzuki at the same time.Sadly, the partnership has not succeeded, as (quote) "Osamu Suzuki hasn??
craig04, Jul 5, 4:46am
Do you own a beige cardy by chance!
bellky, Jul 5, 4:53am
Thank god there's someone to stand up to him.
countrypete, Jul 5, 5:02am
I'm not interested in "standing up to him".I just don't like misinformation, which that poster regularly posts, then abuses and insults other he accuses of doing just that.
bellky, Jul 5, 5:03am
^ Exactly, and what you did was stand up to him in my view. Good on ya.
msigg, Jul 5, 5:08am
My opinion, Aurion is a better car, better finish, smoother,more reliable, Falcon is a better looking car, reliable except small things like brakes/rotors, fittings. Falcon will use slightly more gas. Both have good names and both should last many years, the toyota will hold its price better.Good luck.
smac, Jul 5, 9:55pm
OK spoke to the question asker last night, and he read this thread.

New question:
- Has now driven a 2.0 diesel mondeo (2008/2009, not sure), actually quite liked it.

Seems to be a better choice in that sized car than the thirsty petrol mazda or accord.

But how long are these diesels likely to last! Assuming proper servicing, will they last the same as the Falcon I6! (same transmission aren't they!)
trdbzr, Jul 5, 11:29pm
yep this definitely does not sound like you
chris_051, Jul 5, 11:35pm
The Falcon and Mondeo have different gearboxes, and I would highly doubt the Mondeo diesel will last as long at the Falcon I6 (not a lot of engines would last as long as the Falcon 4.0), I also doubt the Mondeo diesel will be more forgiving for skipping or extending service intervals, and parts availability and pricing wouldn't be too great on the Mondeo. Can't beat the Falcon 6 cylinder, a proven engine and one of the best around, not a lot to go wrong with them.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 6, 5:11am
As someone who quite likes Euro Fords (especially some of the new models) I am a bit luke warm on the Ford Diesels. They are not terrible and some do rave about them but I just don't think they are in the same street as some of the other Euro diesels.

I can't remember which transmission the Diesel Mondeo comes with but I suspect this is the 4 speed unit. Having had the 2.0 Petrol (circa 2003) Mondeo's as work cars I can tell you the 4 stage auto completely ruins an otherwise very good car. Now these cars are older but I think that same transmission hung around in the lower spec cars until very recently. someone else could clarify that for you.

The tricky thing is you may not realise how rubbish that transmission is until you get the vehicle out and onto some bigger hills etc. To give you some idea, the bank I worked for had literally dozens of these cars yet only one was automatic. That should say something given bankers usually like automatic cars and we got to choose.

My suggestion is now to test the Passat and Skoda and compare them to the Mondeo.

Food for thought.

BTW, I am deliberately ignoring the trolls above for your benefit, if they want to argue about unrelated matters they can start a new thread.
smac, Jul 6, 5:21am
Nah pretty sure it's the 6 speed. I've driven the ones at work and they drive very well. Think it was only the Focus that got stiffed with the 4 speed for so long for some reason.
Just curious about longevity - have read bad things in the past about duel mass flywheels etc, just not sure if those things apply to the MK4.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 6, 5:30am
That sounds good about the 6 speed. To be honest my knowledge of that particular Mondeo is very limited so take what I say with regard to specifics with a grain of salt.

In general though with dual mass flywheels its the driver rather than the car which is the problem.

Basically it works like this, those diesels can produce phenomenal torque even at idle. I can't quote the Mondeo but some modern Diesels of similar size can produce torque similar to a V8 at 4500rpm, except they do it at or just above idle.

So what happens is you get nutters taking off in second gear (which the car has the torque to do) or slipping the clutch backing and turning with a few revs on when the clutch should be right out with the engine idling. (Just imagine how much you would cringe doing that in a V8 held at 4500rpm)

Now sure you can build a clutch that will cope with the 5% of people who don't know better and do that. However it costs more and will generally be a lot more agricultural. Thats the advantage of dual mass flywheels, they absorb the shock and make for a nice smooth petrol car like experience.

Now, all of that said, some of the very new cars now have tripple mass or stronger dual mass flywheels that are a bit more robust.

My advice, check it out really well before buying it and then just drive it with mechanical sympathy. Incidentally, this is also where the DSG shines, by design its really good at preserving its clutches as the computer is in control. Most of those automated manuals (and I am pretty sure the DSG is one of them) will even monitor clutch temperature and shut down the transmission if someone actually manages to find a loophole and manage to do something stupid.
xacoon, Jul 7, 2:39am
bugger me I just remembered why I havent really been on here since last winter, nothing much has changed. and sorry jazz, no I haven't gone and tested one of those anorak utes yet, and doubt I ever will, the ad is the only thing attractive about them for starters.