Help, is 997cc car too gutless, unsafe etc. Opinio

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armin59, Sep 10, 3:20am
Hi, my daughter's starlet just got written off, not her fault, just parked actually. We need a little car, same size. Mostly for just driving into work at Ch-Ch Hospital but does want to be able to drive in country and hills with friends in car. We just looked at Toyota Vitz 2004, 100,787km, engine capacity 997cc. Is this car too small in the engine! We know nothing useful about cars, other than it's a nice green colour. Please tell us what you think. Also can you suggest a nice replacement, preferably Toyota. We would really love a low km starlet like she had. What is like that please. Poor Bubble was just parked outside the flat and a lady crashed into her, shoving her up the footpath and causing huge damage. Sucks. Thanks in anticipation of your advice.
snj11, Sep 10, 3:29am
sounds like the vitz would suit her, id go for her 1300 or better yet 1500cc model though if possible, you wont lose much economy in comparison to the 1000cc but they are much better to drive.

Another "hint" is that there will no doubt be a poster along soon that will make a big long winded post telling you to buy a VW golf or Fiat Punto - Dont listen to him.
jmma, Sep 10, 3:38am
Thats a bit unfair, you gave your opinion (o:
snj11, Sep 10, 3:42am
yea fair call, but its fair to say the poster in question tends to really push the issue over and over again and someone with very little knowledge may take this as gosphel
thejazzpianoma, Sep 10, 3:42am
Have a drive of a 2000 - 2004 Fiat Punto 1.2

Significantly better car, nicer on the open road, much more capable on hills, better features, galvanised so no rust, safer, parts are cheap and easy to get, service intervals are long, the list goes on.

The only downside is seeing through the nonsense (Like above) from those who have likely never even sat in one, let alone owned several (like we have).

If you decide to buy one let me know and I can give you a list of things to check to help make sure you get a really good one.

Best of luck with whatever you purchase.
snj11, Sep 10, 3:53am
To be fair Jazz i have owned over 60 cars, many of them have been euro and had good runs and was able to fix cheaply, BUT that is because i know how to do things my self and know to think out side the square and go to certain (non dealer) places to source parts.

Im not bad mouthing the cars as such, I just strongly feel that for a young girl who has no knowledge of cars or how to fix, so likely just goes into the local garage or dealer and says fix, a basic jappa IS cheaper to keep on the road.

For someone with a bit of know how to shop around for parts etc the Fiat may not be a bad option, but fact is if you go into your average garage the fiat will cost more to fix and maintain than the toyota
justincase5, Sep 10, 3:54am
The 1000cc Vitz was never a good engine unfortunately and the Japanese Buyers when I was in Japan hated it, They would always go for the 1300cc or better still the 1500cc and laughed if they were offered the 1000cc jobbie. I actually drive a little 660cc truck for work every day and they are extremely peppy for what they are, Not saying you should go for as small as that but merely pointing out something strange, Japanese love their little 660cc Kei Cars and there are millions of them driving around in Japan but given the choice for a 1000cc or 1300cc/1500cc in the Vitz they opted for the larger more reliable engines.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 10, 4:04am
I think the 660cc Kei Cars big appeal in Japan is the significant tax breaks for that size engine. Someone else would know more on that.

Also, just to put things into perspective. If we are talking auto transmission, the 1.2 Punto is going to perform more on a par (sometimes better) than the 1.5 litre Japanese equivalents yet fuel economy is going to be more like a 1000cc Japanese equivalent.

It sounds odd, but its because of the much more efficient technology used in the Punto, oddly the Demio, Vitz etc didn't really try for an economical/efficient design much at all.

That's a big part of why I rave on about them, they are just so much better than what else was available at the time, that's why they were the most popular car of their size in Europe. (and yes Europeans can buy Japanese cars too)
bellky, Sep 10, 4:07am
It's like MOD's Motors 'more garbage from the faithful' lol.
justincase5, Sep 10, 4:32am
So if the Farts .ooops I mean Fiats are that good, How come you see 1000 Toyotas and hello there is 1 Fiat ! Yee Haa.Really Popular Design there.

by The Way,
Yes the Kei Cars in Japan are dramatically reduced annual road taxes compared to cars over 700cc. It equates to like NZD $100 per year for a 660cc Kei Car Vs NZD $320 Per Year for Cars 1000cc to 1500cc or $500 per Year for a 2000cc Car, NZD $650 per year for 2500cc to 3000cc, NZD $750per year for 3000cc to 3500cc, NZD $900 per year for 3500cc to 5000cc.Then 5000cc Upwards was NZD $1100 Per Year.These figures are approx, But will be quite close.Engine size and weight also determines scrap cost when scrapping your car in Japan, For example a 1500cc to 2000cc car is worth approx $500 in scrap value to sell to scrap yards where as a 5000cc car can be worth $1000 in Scrap value.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 10, 4:50am
Only in NZ and only because we are a weird isolated market where everyone is focused on Japanese imports, and anything that isn't one suffers from the wives tales and silly nonsense used to sell them.

(and you need wives tales and nonsense to sell them because the likes of the Vitz is no where near the car the Punto is and until very recently the Vitz was 2-3 times the price of a Punto here as well).

In other non-isolated Countries the Punto IS what you see everywhere. Like I said it was the most popular car in its size in many countries.

Bottom line OP, jut take one for a drive. We can prattle on here for ages, I can even give you an extensive list of all the bits the Punto has which are better than the Vitz. But ultimately a drive in one (especially up some hills and open road) should make it abundantly clear what I am on about.

Take a look at the economy meter as you drive too, I think you will be blown away at the fuel economy given how much grunt those little cars have.

Thanks justincase5 for the detailed info on the car tax, that was an interesting read.
babcorp, Sep 10, 5:00am
What about A suzuki swift! A very smart looking car 1500cc I think, Well I like them, and I'd have one if I was wanting a small car.
kazbanz, Sep 10, 5:12am
armin for the specific job you are talking about the 1000cc vitz will do just fine I'd even go so far as to say this is the enviroment it was desighned for.
But outside of the city limits and you will find the limitations of the 1000cc vitz pretty fast.
Is there a budget you are working to!
Or is there another reason you are concidering a small engine car!
I'll be honest I can think of a number of other cars that will offer the same fuel economy but have 1200-1300cc engines
armin59, Sep 10, 5:26am
Thanks for all your advice guys. She just wants a little car like Bubble the wee blue starlet. Had her for 6 years while doing two degrees. A really good, reliable, cheap to run car. Had only 60,000 kms. Such a poo that lady can't drive straight. Daughter likes a small car, but also likes to take four friends over to Akaroa or Hanmer. Bubble got a bit munted in the big earthquake, going over a bridge with large after shock, she went up the bum of the car infront. That damage was fixed, then some nasty threw a pumpkin at the back part, so much damage, amazing. Stop laughing you guys, I can hear you. We are really gutted she is destroyed, crying for her. Annoying having to play Mum's Taxi, daughter works in E.D so needs reliability and able to get there in snow like that gutsy starlet did. Thanks again.
mitsiboy69, Sep 10, 5:26am
Just because it has a small engine doesn't mean it will be dangerously slow. I used to own a 700cc subaru ace and it was very quick and comfortbaly did 100-120 kph on the motorway.
armin59, Sep 10, 5:26am
I like swifts but the kid thinks they are a Nana car.
mantagsi, Sep 10, 5:33am
Note from a Japanese car owner here. It is pretty easy to see why we have so many Jap cars on the road. For years and years we were one of the few markets they could export to, and supply far exceeded demand, so it was easy to blow out the NZ market with thousands of cheap Jap vehicles. The same never applied to Euro cars (disregard Ladas & milk money a few years back) so thats why we see 1000 Vitz's to every Fiat AFAIK.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 10, 5:39am
Got it in one!

Something crazy like 90% of what was on used car lots were Japanese used imports there for decades. People are funny creatures, they feel comfortable with whatever it is that surrounds them most, that and the tall stories dealers tell/told about anything that they didn't have which was better value. They certainly didn't help.

Anyhow, the astute buyer can always use that to their advantage, or not its up to them. There is certainly a LOT more car available for the same money with the likes of the Punto. Although, as good a value as the Punto is now, the days of the Vitz being 2-3 times the price are long gone.

Some of it is attitude which is changing and some of it is just that the Vitz was grossly over priced for a while and has taken a real dive in price while the value of the Punto held.
taurus61, Sep 10, 5:43am
If Euro Cars are so bad, Why are the Honda ( Honda Accord Euro, Honda Civis Euro), Toyota - There latest add in the papers high lighting there European inspired range, Nissan with there invovment with European car makers, all trying to copy the european cars !
tower, Sep 10, 5:45am
I would go for a Toyota in this case, simple to fix, and plenty of parts available.I am sure the Fiat would be more fun to drive, and may be more economical, but my experience is that they are less reliable.I would agree that a 1300 would be a better engine size in a Vitz.I have an 1800cc Toyota, and it is very economical and has lots of power.
poppajn, Sep 10, 5:48am
Diahatsui Charade, in the latest Classic Driver, Allan Dick swears by them.
Just saying what I read, that,s all.
mugenb20b, Sep 10, 5:48am
You have no idea what you are talking about.
taurus61, Sep 10, 6:10am
Oh so you know it all, I am just commenting on what I see advertised.
So what is euro about the Honda Accord or the Honda Civic, What is European inspired in the New Toyota line up !.
hatchback, Sep 10, 6:12am
Nissan sunny 1500cc manual.the perfect girls car
dent, Sep 10, 6:15am
She liked her starlet and the vitz is really just the replacement for the starlet. In fact her starter possibly has the 1000cc engine in it anyhow. So shes not going to be any worse off.