This is to let Kazbanz, and others who expressed an interest and offered me advice, know that I won my Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal case re. my Ford Focus. The adjudicator has ruled that the Ford dealer must refund my original purchase price in full and immediately. The dealer has ten working days to appeal, so I am not rushing out to buy a new car just yet, but I would like to thank you for answering my questions and giving me your opinion over the last few months.
stevo2,
Dec 16, 7:09am
Great result. I kinda have the feeling you wont be getting another Ford or buying from that dealer again?
craigsmith,
Dec 16, 7:10am
Good job. And if it is a main Ford dealer, they might just obey the court, unlike most other used car con artists.
meoldchina,
Dec 16, 7:22am
You're so right there! I will probably be seeking MB opinion on what vehicle to get before I make my final choice, but as so many of you have advised me, I will not be buying a diesel.
intrade,
Dec 16, 7:52pm
What we tell you is only based on what we think our self like i dont like any car they are all crap and you have to find one that is the least crap of em all to what your needs are thats my basic foundation of how i see it.
thunderbolt,
Dec 16, 8:32pm
Great outcome for you, hope they accept their fate and just pay you out so you can move on. It would still be great to see someone drive the wheels of that car on a seriously long trip and see if that fixes it, just for curiosities sake.
kazbanz,
Dec 16, 9:04pm
Thats great news for you china. I do have to say though that I genuinely feel the dealership really did their very best to sort out your car for you. You have to give em credit for that.
supernova2,
Dec 16, 9:37pm
I read the old thread and I agree with Kaz on this one. The dealer certainly did a lot to try and sort the problems. I think the dealers downfall was that they sold the OP a car that was not suitable for his needs, which in turn created a problematic car which IMHO became literally unfixable.
It therefore sorta follows that Ford would keep telling the dealer that there was nothing "wrong" with the car as technically there probably isn't anything "wrong" with the car. It' simply that the car is the wrong one for the OP.
I know of several people who have been "persuaded" into diesel vehicles that are used on the school run. Most of them are now all coughing and spluttering. I use "persuaded" with caution. Lots of new car dealers have the diesel models out front, all bright and shiny, and they, with the advantage of the "greeny" publicity, talk up the so called cleanness of the diesel and the uneducated buyers fall for the spiel and drive away in a ticking bomb.
I know of one family, who upgrade every two years, who recently spent close to $150K to purchase 2 diesel VAG vehicles. They not so happy now to say the least. What really amused me was they had to go out of town to do the deal (no VAG dealer in Rotorua).
tgray,
Dec 16, 9:45pm
They can only appeal an MVDT ruling if they feel the hearing was not conducted in a fair manner given all the evidence, or due process was not followed. They cannot appeal simply on the grounds they do not like the decision.
kazbanz,
Dec 16, 10:19pm
So what now china? I figure you will want another new car but whats going to fill your needs?
cammey,
Dec 16, 10:41pm
LOL well you may have some support there.
My son in law is an auto-electrician, with a reasonably large workshop in Wellington, and a half dozen staff.
He is right up with all the modern technology, but over a beer will sometimes admit that the tech is great when its going, but it can cost a small fortune to repair when it goes wrong.
He has just upgraded the workshop fleet. He bought the end-of life D22 Navaras. Nissan flogged them off at better than Chinese truck prices last year.
But Dave tells me he chose them not for price. But because they have all old technology electrics. He reckons the trucks will do ten years in his workshop, then still have ten years left for hunting and fishing.
And they have a pressed steel key, that he can keep in his pocket when he goes diving.
Imagine that. A car key that's water resistant to any depth.
meoldchina,
Dec 16, 11:40pm
I agree with you Kazbanz - the dealership's mechanics tried their level best to fix the problem and tried everything that Ford NZ and Ford Australia told them to, but it defeated them every time. I even praised the mechanics for their efforts when I gave my evidence to the tribunal. I have no complaint against the mechanics. My issue was with the dealership for not handling my complaint effectively and efficiently, or, as they should have done under the Consumer Guarantees Act. They treated me with contempt. They kept hiding behind Ford with excuses for not replacing or refunding us for the car. They insisted the entire wiring loom was replaced and they had the car for three weeks to do the job, which was described by them as "the last resort" to fix it. When the car was returned to us the fault reappeared within a week. I doubted they had done anything to the car, and I was right. They admitted at the Tribunal that they hadn't replaced the wiring loom. So they had lied to us. I appreciate that you think I was sold the wrong car for the type of driving I am doing, but in fact, the problem was with the electronics and nothing to do with the mechanics. It could have happened with a petrol car too. However, I will not be replacing the Focus with another diesel. I have learnt that lesson from the comments on the MB. When I have narrowed down my options for a replacement car I will be back on the MB to ask your advice. Keep an eye out for me!
brapbrap8,
Dec 17, 4:08am
Ah yeah, all well and good until somebody crashes a D22 and hurts themselves, and Worksafe puts your son in law in front of the courts and asks why he bought such an unsafe vehicle.
There is a very good reason why most tradies are replacing all their Hiace and L300 vans with iLoads and Transits, and replacing Landcruiser and other older utes with new Rangers, it is a lot cheaper than a huge fine or jail time for negligence of making your staff drive something unsafe.
cammey,
Dec 17, 4:57am
Give me one example of a business being fined, (or even taken to court) for having a 3 star rated vehicle. Otherwise, I will just have to assume you are full of it.
fordcrzy,
Dec 17, 5:13am
sometimes stuff just has faults which are impossible find. we a re currently dealing with a new gas Hob that intermittantly leaks gas through the house. up to about 8 visits by the gas guys so far. very close to telling them to stick it up thier a$$
treachug,
Dec 17, 10:43am
you sure you are correct there? The poster said D22 (Navara) (a forward engine ute) not E22 (a forward control van). I could understand concerns if E22 van but surely a D22 Navara ute must be reasonably safe?
brapbrap8,
Dec 17, 8:32pm
A D22 is only 3 stars, but that is artificially boosted by the fact that utes are not tested like cars are, and automatically get full points for the side impact tests. But compare to another ute, The D22 scores 5.7/16 on the frontal impact test. The Ford Ranger scores 15.7/16 on the same test. The Nissan is also almost entirely lacking in active safety equipment such as stability control.
Someone will get fined for not having safe vehicles in a work fleet soon, it has been questioned in several farming fatalities already where the coroner reported that having a newer vehicle with more safety features would have saved the workers life.
Pretty much every good sized company you can think of, as well as government departments have policies of only using 5 star safety vehicles in fleets now.
Worksafe can prosecute if an employer has not taken all reasonable steps to minimise risk, and opting for safer vehicles is certainly a reasonable step for minimising risk. A 5 star safety rated Mitsi Triton for example is only about $25k drive away, so there is really no valid excuse for having a D22 in a business fleet. The difference in fuel economy, servicing costs and resale value would easily make a Triton the cheaper option anyway.
bjmh,
Dec 17, 9:12pm
brapbrap8 do N.Z rangers have an Adblue system fitted ?
We must be living in some kind of Brave New World if it's acceptable for a a brand new car to clog up and not run right, simply because the owner doesn't do enough of "the right kind of driving". ?
There are plenty of 30 year old SOHC carburettor fed cars on the roads that can cope with short drives to the shops to get milk and back, OR spirited 100km/h blats on country roads, OR blasting up SH1 to the other end of the island. Day in, day out, indefinitely until the car wears out from sheer high mileage. I'm driving one.
kazbanz,
Dec 18, 1:04am
Richard--Im sorry dude but the guts is that we live in the 21's century. Diesel vehicles in the 21'st century are desighned to run on zero sulphur fuel. NZ however is Diesel wise still living in the 20th century. We in nz expect diesel vehicles to run on this lower grade fuel. They do run but a side effect is they "clog up" The way to reduce/stop the effect is to "thrash" them ie take em for long drives so they get hot. Im over simplifying a bit.
elect70,
Dec 18, 2:06am
Good result . They should have just done it in the first place . Im sure Ford HO would have approved of it cant understand why the dealer went to so much trouble . so moralis dont buy little deisels for shopping baskets .
meoldchina,
Dec 18, 3:34am
I have to correct you, Elect70. It was Ford NZ that would not agree to the dealer settling this dispute with a replacement car or refund and the dealer didn't have the b***s to stand-up to them and point out that under the Consumer Guarantees Act we were entitled to a refund as we had given them reasonable time to fix the problem (more than 2 and a half years) and the car had a serious fault. Also, the fault was with the electronics, not the mechanics or anything to do with diesel clogging. Incidentally, the Ford dealer has made no attempt to refund us yet and has not even made contact with us. This is typical of the contempt with which MS Ford and Ford NZ have treated us.
kenw1,
Dec 18, 4:00am
It is interesting that this case has been settled so close to Christmas. Probably to ensure that the media let it die before the new year.
cammey,
Dec 18, 4:32am
So you are full of it. No one has every even been to court over having a three star vehicle.
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