Was attempting to rotate the tyres on my car today. The car uses 17mm lug bolts, not nuts if that makes any difference. Anyway, the tyre store had done them up insanely tight and they weren't budging even with a 0.4m breaker bar.
I went to Repco and as they had 40% off on tools I decided I'd buy a better quality socket set as I'd wanted one for some time. I bought a Powerbuilt KBT2768 44pc set, which has nice looking 12 point half inch sockets. Anyway with the 17mm socket from that set and my 0.4m breaker the lug bolts came right off, like nothing!
Do 12 point sockets give you more grip or something? My previous sockets were cheap 6 point ones bought years ago from the Warehouse.
jmma,
Feb 6, 5:14am
No they dont, but I think cheap and Warehouse explain it (o:
morrisman1,
Feb 6, 5:14am
12 points are generally worse for doing the real tight stuff. a good 6 point socket is less likely to burr the head.
franc123,
Feb 6, 5:17am
For the most part, no. There is a reason why impact sockets are only 6 point, and for that matter dedicated wheel nut sockets and wheelbraces/factory toolkit wrenches are too. It could be that your old sockets have spread slightly in the hex or your new ones are simply made to a tighter tolerance.
jmma,
Feb 6, 5:19am
We used to call them single and double hex :oP
robotnik,
Feb 6, 5:34am
Yeah I guess my old socket was probably a less tight fit on the lug bolt.
By the way, what's up with tyre places doing up lug bolts so tight? No way that the bolts would have come off with the short wrench that came with the car and if I had a flat somewhere in the countryside I'd have been screwed.
brapbrap8,
Feb 6, 5:37am
Was your old socket actually slipping? Unless it was then there shouldn't be any difference between the sockets in their ability to get something undone.
quickbuck,
Feb 6, 5:44am
Usually they are done up tight because they rap them up with a rattle gun like they are in Formula 1. Thing is they are supposed to do them up close, then torque them the rest of the way with a torque wrench. If they use a torque wrench I bet it is a spring type one and is usually left done up all day/ week/ months. This makes them useless!
It is always advisable to undo your wheels when it gets back from the Tyre Shop with your big breaker bar and then do them up again with the bar that is in the boot. That way you have got more chance of changing a wheel with the tools available in the boot.
Remember to check tighten your wheels every once in a while. Do NOT do this by standing on the bar though, then you will be back to where you started. Over tight bolts, which isn't the best for them either.
franc123,
Feb 6, 5:49am
They shouldn't be. Any pro outfit should be using torque limiting sockets and finishing them up by hand, as above. Most cars and LCV's with studs around the M12 or 1/2" mark are only done up in the range of 100-130Nm, there is absolutely no need for them to be tighter.
quickbuck,
Feb 6, 5:52am
Exactly. And I would be talking to the "Tyre Shop" and going somewhere else if they argue.
robotnik,
Feb 6, 6:04am
I bought the tyres around a year ago from a well known national chain which you would hope would know what they are doing. I had not touched the tyres since they were put on 12 months back. It is possible all the nuts seized on the wheels in that time or something like that?
franc123,
Feb 6, 6:12am
Highly unlikely unless it was in a salty environment. If the nuts run up the studs by hand using only thumb and index finger then they are/were not seized. If the threads are a little corroded a good wire brush up followed by copperkote, other antisieze compound or even a bit of mineral grease smeared on them should sort it. If they still seem tight then a die nut run up them and a tapping out of the nut should sort it.
robotnik,
Feb 6, 6:20am
Oops these are lug bolts. The car is a Volkswagen.
robotnik,
Feb 6, 6:25am
Well I do drive along a stretch of road almost every day which is maybe 50 metres from the sea. Would that do it, I don't take it onto the beach or anything like that though.
franc123,
Feb 6, 6:34am
Maybe jf the threads were bone dry. Overtightening is more likely given the amount of time that's passed.
mechnificent,
Feb 6, 7:33am
"Anyway with the 17mm socket from that set and my 0.4m breaker the lug bolts came right off, like nothing!". Just changing the socket shouldn't have made any difference. Did you have breakfast between attempts perhaps ?
If you'd used a new bar, and it was stiffer than your old one. that would've made a difference.
robotnik,
Feb 6, 7:43am
I think the new socket had a tigher fit and that was the thing that did it. Before with the old socket even standing on the bar didn't work.
tool_shop173,
Feb 6, 10:14am
The wheel nuts should also be done up in a star pattern. They should then be torqued up to the correct torque setting. This will eliminate brake rotor distortion as impact guns WILL do each nut up slightly different.
sr2,
Feb 6, 10:24am
The unequal tightening of wheel nuts has the potential to cause a number of problems but rotor distortion is not one of them.
lugee,
Feb 6, 1:27pm
If the old sockets weren't slipping (you didn't say they were), then changing the sockets won't have made any difference. Maybe they were a different temperature on the second attempt, that may have been enough to cross the line.
edangus,
Feb 6, 10:00pm
I am picking you drove your car (the one you where trying to rotate the tyres on) to Repco, after attempting to loosen them? You may have just given them a good crack with your old set and the drive loosened them sufficiently for the new set to make it easy. Wheel Nuts and bolts can get stuck on for all sorts of reasons (As listed above). Hope you put some Coppercote on them for the next time.
tool_shop173,
Feb 6, 11:44pm
Umm, Yes it does. I think its best you stick to your music.
robotnik,
Feb 7, 1:37am
Yeah that might be it. The drive loosened them up.
sr2,
Feb 7, 5:58am
Sorry to pull rank mate but I have 40 odd years in the engineering industry, originally trained by PBR in Australia, headhunted by APPCO Brake & Clutch NZ in the 80's to train staff and mechanics on the finer point of braking systems and since leaving the automotive industry for more lucrative pastures have spent the last 20 years building and running Tarmac Rally cars.
I have yet see an instance of incorrect wheel lug tightening causing rotor distortion. Yes I have had the idea suggested to me in the past and have even tried to simulate it by using a wheel spacer as a dummy wheel while checking for run-out with a DTI gauge, I'm always happy to be proven wrong but I think this may be a myth.
If you still have doubts take a wheel off your car, reverse the wheel nuts (taper out), with washers underneath and check the runout with a mag base DTI while you vary the wheel lug torque settings.
Enjoying the debate, it's an interesting topic
bwg11,
Feb 7, 6:26am
Finding the debate interesting too. I believed (although the source was internet lore) that over-tightening caused rotor distortion. AW11's were prone to distortion, and overtightening was cited as the cause. Got me into good habits though, since owning the AW11, I always tighten with the rattle gun set on its loosest setting then finish with the torque wrench.
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