Has anybody heard from the board's resident VAG salesman and specialist about this? Surely it's just a ruse created by Toyota, Suzuki and Mitsubishi to discredit VAG and drive the sheeple of NZ back to Japanese cars and away from their far superior VAG products. - .LOLOLOLOLOLOL
bill-robinson,
Sep 23, 2:19pm
will audi lose the le mans 24 hour wins?
klrider,
Sep 23, 2:45pm
It must be a conspiracy, probably by the Police.
tamarillo,
Sep 23, 2:56pm
Just read peice about this so called test mode, explained that Epa does it rolling road with driving axle only, but this upsets the cars stability and traction control systems which will shut the thing down. Makes sense. So it is common car has a test mode to sense this situation and over ride those systems. Many do, in fact you'd have thought all cars with stability and traction controls do. But, VW one also affected the emissions more than usual in some cases. Question is, if the epa knew the cars had to have these test modes why the hell weren't they doing better checks. And, how many others use same mode to help. The fact that the car will perform differently under test is well known and documented by euro testers, and it seems they regularly check against real world figures. Real world is usually higher, and they are aware of issue. Think we are going to find this opens up a big can of worms and VW will get the most shit, but others will be caught out too. Then there's the money. Some suggest some political motivation behind this, which in the States is rather believable. Lot of unfolding to do yet.
brapbrap8,
Sep 23, 3:00pm
VAG has lost 38% of their company value, over 25 billion Euros since this story broke, definetly a big problem. I still think there will be other manufacturers found out as well soon enough.
tamarillo,
Sep 23, 3:02pm
Oh you're so witty. My 12 yr old thinks so anyway.
So there you have MB, BMW, Citroen, and GM/Opel not looking very good. Accompanied by details on how the makers use cycle-beating, and making this pertinent comment: ------------ This kind of engine control regimen is referred to as a ???defeat device??
serf407,
Sep 23, 3:15pm
How do BMW and Merc diesels meet the EPA requirements? Do they have a different systems? Use more diesel exhaust fluid(DEF)?
mm12345,
Sep 23, 3:24pm
The earlier VAG 2.0 TDI sold in the US didn't use DEF / selective catalyst system, but NOx trap. Both failed EPA, both were chipped with the defeat programme, and neither could be brought up to meet EPA standard by software reset. So who knows - it's not looking good.
If I was tech manager of some car company, as soon as the #1 maker released a new model, I'd be buying one (more probably), taking it back to the workshop, and have the thing pulled apart by my best engineers to find out exactly how it ticks. It's inconceivable that even if the other makers didn't do it, that many didn't know. That nobody spilled the beans suggests that they all do it - a quiet shared secret. Conspiracy theory stuff I know - but it's believable IMO.
kazbanz,
Sep 23, 3:35pm
The guts of it is that there was a program that HAD to be used to make the emission testing physically possible. There is no argument with that. The issue is that VAG have a secondary program built into their cars that leans off the engine ONLY when that program is in use. So a manufacturer only has to establish that the "secondary" program is either only there to simulate real world conditions OR that the secondary program is standard and works at all times and they are off scott free. Lots of midnight oil burning I think.
mm12345,
Sep 23, 3:45pm
The program wouldn't "lean off" - it would change the fuel injection mode and engine map to pump in more fuel and less air. High levels of NOx is produced in lean combustion conditions, and because there's excess oxygen in the exhaust, then NOx can't be catalysed.
fordcrzy,
Sep 23, 4:28pm
The EPA simply refused to give VAG the conformity docs for the 2016 model year cars until they fessed up. VAG wouldnt have been able to sell ANY cars in the states because of the "grouped averaged emissions" accross all models.
mm12345,
Sep 23, 4:41pm
Aaaha. Now that would have caused a few sleepless nights. Hobson's choice. They must have known they were f@rked when some tough questions were asked.
gazzat22,
Sep 23, 4:43pm
Wouldnt happen in NZ we havent got emission tests,unless you mean the"emits visible emissions ) for more than 10 seconds on start up!
tony9,
Sep 23, 4:55pm
Won't work. The ECU and other on board modules spend much of their cpu power defeating anyone trying to reverse engineer them and see how they work.
At the moment there seems to be about a 5 year lag between a new ECU and it getting cracked comprehensively.
poppy62,
Sep 23, 5:05pm
Anyone selling some Kaimanawa horses! Shouldn't be too much weight in a stripped out Golf/Polo. There again the co=efficient of drag on a stripped out Audi RS 8 should be easier on the Nags and what a Cart to boot.
tamarillo,
Sep 23, 5:15pm
How does that work? So far it's only the two litre diesel affected I thought. I thought the smaller vag diesels were ok (so far). Couldn't they just withdraw cars with that engine, which is a small part of their market?
bjmh,
Sep 23, 5:27pm
Achtung gott in himmel. or so the war comics went.
intrade,
Sep 23, 5:31pm
It's a bit like Muppet show you know I did read a few article as I like to know the truth any vw meet and comply to euro emission standards It's the Californian emission standard only it dontcomply with
fordcrzy,
Sep 23, 5:35pm
in the U.S the entire fleets emissions are all grouped into a pool, so you could have a car with higher CO2 emissions averaged by another that has very low CO2. yes they could have withdrawn the 2.0 diesels from sale i guess, but as most of the 2016 model year cars are already hitting ports in the U.S i bet it was too late
intrade,
Sep 23, 5:50pm
Also emission always ever have been measured in parkedcars not under load every car drops emission controlled when you need power Petrol going open loop no time to jerke about with fuel and air mix when you need to overtake someone .its probably impossible to meet California emissionsunlesss the engine is never having much load and stays within 1 fixed rpm range otherwise there is 1000 of variables you can't control Or you be having a 1000hp engine producing 45hp at best and use 25 liter fuel to burn its emissions in the exhaust.
tamarillo,
Sep 23, 5:56pm
Ok, but I still don't see why they can't simply withdraw the affected cars and sale the others.
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