Hi Im looking to go from my aging Lexus ES300 ( sweet car) to a touring AWD wagon (useful for mtbking and skiing) . But theres only a few option it seems. I'm looking at : 4wd, 2011+ model, <100k's, auto, diesel if possible, prefer Japanese, max $25k. Outbacks seem pretty overpriced, and their modern diesels are really $$$. 2.5L or 3.6L ? Whats the real difference from a Legacy, does the 220mm clearance mean less handling + more drag = more fuel ? VW Passat diesel seems better value but with the $$$ of maintaining a Euro [ its got a nightmare of a hand-brake button ] .
There is next to nothing else ! [not really into a Skoda]. is that it for choice in nz ? is there a wagon you can select between 2 & 4WD ? appreciate comments !
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 17, 3:57am
VW shouldn't cost any more to maintain than the Subaru. Skoda is just a VW wearing a different party dress, so unless it's just the looks of the Skoda you don't like, I don't get why you would dismiss them.
You could also consider an Audi, same deal as the Skoda to some degree with VW running gear under the hood. Volvo might be worth a look as well.
Why is the handbrake button a nightmare? You just push it to put it on and it will actually take itself off automatically when you put it in drive, doesn't come much easier than that.
brapbrap8,
Jul 17, 4:15am
I wouldn't bother with the Subaru diesel, they are nowhere near as quiet, refined and powerful as the VW. The Outback is a fantastic driving machine, even though it is higher up it is still at least as good as pretty much any car on the corners. It is so good that Subaru have stopped making the Legacy wagon now, as the Outback does exactly the same thing, with the extra ride height and no compromise. The 3.6 Outback is the one to have, it does use some fuel but it will put a smile on your face, the 2.5L is only just powerful enough to be acceptable and doesn't use much less fuel. There will still be some Legacy wagons in your year and price range but you may as well have the Outback for the practicality of handling rougher terrain.
I don't know why you would think a european car would cost more to run either, the VW engines are the most economical around, and servicing is less often than the japanese competitiors and they have much better power and comfort. Servicing Subaru can be dearer than an average car due to the very high oil capacity of their engines which makes it dearer to change, and they need changing twice as often as a VW diesel does.
Test drive both, they are both very good vehicles.
lulu04,
Jul 17, 4:27am
Cheers , appreciated comments.
Noted on the skoda/VW. Every time i have used the VW brake button on a hill start in a Manual it rolled backwards, me with 30+ years of driving manuals . maybe it wasnt tuned in or something. [I had a 5 y.o Volvo s80. The ETB died = $$$, turns out there was a USA-wide recall, and that it was not covered in NZ. Then one day the reverse gear just . "disappeared" , sold it for $400, never again. ]
So there are no Jap rivals to the Outback ? Toyota Caldina is gone ?
cranken28,
Jul 17, 4:28am
I have a Passat (2003 B5,5 model) I find the drivers seat base too small. Im not that fat .
oldboyjohn,
Jul 17, 4:35am
Subaru owners are very loyal and always seem to buy another, so I guess that is a good recommendation!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 17, 4:50am
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. There are actually two systems at play, "hill hold" and "electronic parking brake". If my memory serves me right, on the model you are talking about there are buttons to activate both systems. The handbrake on the dash to your right and hill hold by the shifter on the centre console. It should operate automatically so long as the system is activated.
You should have no problem at all with it after a quick read of the manual. Also, even as a big fan of manual transmissions, the DSG is by far my transmission of choice when it comes to VW. It gives you the best of everything. So I suggest you drive one before going for a manual if that is what you are looking for.
Old Volvo's were renowned for Automatic transmission problems, but don't go blaming Volvo for it. The transmission in question is Japanese and made by Toyota subsidiary Aisin. It was just as unreliable in the Japanese cars it was also fitted to.
If you are looking for a diesel I would generally avoid the Japanese offerings. Japan has zero domestic diesel market, vs over 60% for Europe. As a result any domestically produced diesels from Japan are almost all built on a comparative shoestring, and reliability and efficiency suffers.
Also, how much town running are you doing? The FSI and TSI VW/Skoda/Audi's are supremely efficient, even the 3.2 litre one. I can get a combined 8.5l/100km no problem at all doing errands and a free running commute to work out of the 3.2 4motion Passat. The 3.2 doesn't do so well with cold short running though, that's where the smaller capacity or diesel will shine.
msigg,
Jul 17, 5:47am
Hard to beat the Subaru, they are an excellent car, if looked after will do huge km no trouble. The passat is good but will depreciate alot faster, hence the price difference, no doubts about that. Each to their own, get the cooling system fluid changed on anything you buy, more engines stuffed from overheating than anything else. Good luck.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 17, 5:53am
Actually, I have doubts about that. You post this same comment about every European car, regardless of price or where it might happen to be in it's depreciation cycle. Something which is mathematically impossible.
Stop and think about it, depreciation is not linear for any car regardless of make/model etc. Depreciation tends to come in slides and platau's.
Pretty much all cars wind up being worth about the same once they are around 15 years old. So you can't have a car with "bad" depreciation, it's just mathematically impossible. You can have cars which take the bulk of their depreciation early, and those that take it later. If depreciation is a concern, the idea is to buy when the car is at a platau in it's depreciation cycle.
Or to put it another way, an early depreciator can be great for a used car buyer and a late depreciator good for a new car buyer. There is just no blanked "poor depreciation" for any car.
lookoutas,
Jul 17, 7:11am
If you really wanta go off-road, buy a Subaru. There is nothing similar that can touch their traction capabilities.
sport_billy,
Jul 17, 7:26am
I was in the same boat earlier in the year - looked at Outlanders, Rav4's, CX7's - really liked a 3.2 DSG 4motion Passat wagon but it would've been a bit low for playing off road (was coming from a 3.0 Legacy sedan).
I now drive a 3.6 Outback - great wagon, handles very well, roomy, comfortable and power to burn. Fuel economy is good for what it is. I drive around for work and it's our weekend away/ski/biking do it all machine.
I've had it in some tricky spots and it's never embarrassed me yet - touch wood :)
I am one of those aforementioned loyal Sub owners.
lookoutas,
Jul 17, 7:43am
I can't say that billy. Had to be towed twice. First time - I drove into a paddock and stopped. Unloaded the trailer, and turned around to find the car had sunken to the floor. Biggest worry was if the grass would dry out and catch fire. There was a lot of sizzle going on. Lucky the gear I had unloaded was a water pump and hoses for loading a helicopter, so that got cranked into life pretty quick.
Second time - had gone down a hill, once again with spray gear on board the trailer, but bellied out while trying to go back up. It was so steep and slippery that the weight of the car and trailer dragged the whole lot backwards until the trailer jack-knifed. Needed a heat-gun on the bumper afterwards!
cagivachick1,
Jul 17, 7:48am
i wouldnt own a vw if you gave it to me, managing director at works toerag was a complete nightmare and had to be almost given away to get rid of it, a friend has a passat w8 what a dog, subaru for me
sport_billy,
Jul 17, 7:50am
Individual circumstances I guess. One of the most surprising vehicles off road I've used was a '58 VW Beetle - low weight (most of it over driving axle) flat bottom floor pan :)
PS modern VW's are great, Mrs has a newish Cross Polo which is great fun to zip around in!
lulu04,
Jul 17, 7:52am
Cheers, I do about 40/ 60% in city/ touring , so Im looking for the better fast highway handling of a s/w rather than an upright SUV. My Lexus is the 3.0l petrol and gets about 11 or 12l/ 100km city, all the way down to 8.1l/100 on empty load cruising the highway , which is pretty good economy with lots overtaking power. Looking for similar in the new wagon.
sport_billy,
Jan 31, 1:35am
In my 3.6 I use an app based on km's travelled v litres used and average 12l city and 8-9l highway - that's been with bikes on the roof too.
Since the public registrations are closed, you must have an invite from a current member to be able to register and post in this thread.
Have an account? Login here.