Conidering an EV for the other half. To be used daily within town. Her daily route involves dropping child off on the way to work, and picking her up on the way home. Its 4.5km each way (yay for small cities) so even with a detour to the supermarket about 10km a day.
Nissan Leaf is of interest to her, but I know NOTHING about EV's.
I plan to go look at a couple today (dealers) and want to know what things do I need to look or check for, and what questions do I need to ask?
I understand batteries have a 'state of health' - what does this mean?
Appreciate any input!
s_nz,
Aug 23, 11:55am
Take a look at the NZ specific electric car guide here:
In short, the leaf dosn't have a thermally managed battery pack, so experiences greater battery degradation than more expensive electric vehicles.
A cheap 2011 leaf had 117km of epa rated range when it was new. (epa ratings are fairly comparable to gentle real world driving). Flip the fleet data shows, that one would expect something like a 75% state of health for that 7 year old car, which would drop the range to 88km.
Some cars have worse battery degradation than others, you can check by using a tool called leafspy, and a odbii to Bluetooth adapter (cira $20). Higher state of health batteries are more desirable, but command a higher price.
tigertim20,
Aug 23, 12:13pm
thanks, I will look at those links.
Are there particular years / models of leaf that are better / worse than others? - ones more or less prone to battery degradation etc?
I assume new batteries can be bought but are probably extremely expensive, I assume new batteries are they only option once buggered?
tmenz,
Aug 23, 12:19pm
Julia Louis Dreyfus can help you with your decision making.
We have two Leafs, both do around 100km return each day. A 2011 Gen 1 which we've had for 2.5 years and paid $12k for which I drive and a 2016 Gen 2 30kw which the wife drives. Both have been excellent, the range on the Gen 1 is around 80km open road, I've never done anything except put air in the tires and washer fluid in the bottle in 50000km. The Gen 2 30kw does around 150km open road. They cost around $2 per 100km to operate assuming you charge at night on a power plan that offers cheap night rates.
I've owned a lot of cars over the years, and for a daily driver they are by far the best.
Battery state of health can easily be checked with an app called Leafspy and any car you look at should have a report done already. To give you an idea on how batteries age, my 2011 has a 77% state of health battery.
s_nz,
Aug 23, 12:38pm
The post mid cycle refresh leaf (AZE0) gained what Nissan called lizard battery chemistry, which was more tolerant of high temperatures than the battery in the original (ZE0) leaf. The AZE0 leaf are generally 2013 or later and can be easily identified by manual foot operated parking break, and lack of a large plastic hump in the boot (the charger was in the boot of the ZE0, but moved under the bonnet in the AZE0).
The post refresh leaf was also offered with a 30kWh battery that has been falsely reporting degradation at triple the rate of the 24kWh leaf. A $100 software update is available to get it to report correctly. More info here:
In general, it seems that you have to benchmark individual cars if you want to get something with better than typical battery health. Counting the tiny bar stubs on the right of the battery meter can be a good proxy for battery health, but be warned, sellers can temporally reset the display to show full health before the car works out its battery health again and drops a few bars. This is why a leafspy check is a good idea.
Regarding new batteries, yes they are available, but generally they are only seen under warranty in really hot markets (Arazona usa etc.).
Out of warranty, generally a new battery is just cost effective. Even if the leaf battery is down to 50% health. (flip the fleet data shows the worst out of their many hundreds of data points is 65%), the car is still good for 60km or so of range, perfectly useful as a short distance commuter, or supermarket car. If that car didn't meet your range needs, it would be mor cost effective to sell it (would fetch around $10k, and buy a newer leaf (perhaps post update, with a healthier battery for say $15k. )
If individual cell(s) fail in a Nissan leaf pack, there are companies that will replace then at reasonable cost in NZ.
I imagine in the next 5 years we will see aftermarket nissan leaf battery packs come onto the market that will offer a capacity upgrade pathway for some owners.
rovercitroen,
Aug 23, 2:10pm
Does using headlights, aircon and heating reduce the Leaf range much?
tigertim20,
Aug 23, 2:25pm
this is another question I was going to ask! stereo too?
s_nz,
Aug 23, 2:37pm
Headlights are pretty much negligible.
Heating / air-con is not. Unlike in a petrol car, there is inefficient combustion engine that heat can be salvaged from for free. Impact on range can be around 5%. Positive side is no need to wait for the engine to warm up before the heater blows warm air.
Note that you can set a pre-condition timer, so your car will heat its interior while it is plugged in, so you can depart on cold winter mornings with a toasty warm car, and no impact on range.
,
Aug 23, 3:42pm
The only thing on your list that really impacts range is the heater and this depends on the model of Leaf you buy. All Gen 1 Leafs and Gen 2 Model S grade Leafs use a resistive heater which is very inefficient and is also slow to heat up, you can pre-heat your car on mains which makes a big difference but using the heater will cut about 20% of your range.
Gen 2 Model X and G cars use a heat pump which is far more efficient, and it only has about a 5% impact on range and the heat is instant. Gen 2 cars also have heated seats and steering wheels which is pretty sweet.
tamarillo,
Aug 23, 4:59pm
Road user charges. Just do factor in that one day the exemption will have to be lifted and road user charges need paying.
gammelvind,
Aug 23, 6:10pm
Assuming Skylarks figure of $2 per 100 km figure is correct (I have no reason to doubt it) adding RUC at current diesel rates would put that up to $2.68 per 100km if my maths are correct. This is still cheap motoring.
,
Aug 23, 6:21pm
Any petrol or diesel vehicle will still be much more expensive to run even with road user charges added. This is actually a reason to buy an EV right now and take advantage of another 3 years of crazy cheap running costs.
intrade,
Aug 23, 6:32pm
90km total range 7h charge time . be ok for what you need it . What to look for is the bars of charger . You can look thru youtube a nv200 can and a few leaf owners on there telling the truth about problems they have . But for what you are stating in post 1 it seems perfect . solong circumstances dont change. here is one owner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm6g1od-IWM
bill1451,
Aug 23, 6:32pm
So Skylarc are you saying that in 3 years time the gummint will be applying RUC, if so any guess what the rate will be per 1000 km ?
intrade,
Aug 23, 6:44pm
Well its exempted from ruc. if you know what the word exemption means . it means ruc will be charged when ever they want to have more money from that source. a ruc charge is somwhere from 6 to 8 cent per km distance . for about 3500kg or below . and no there is no lower ruc if your vehicle only is 1.5 ton you still pay the minimum rate.
mals69,
Aug 23, 6:53pm
Lift front shock covers and make sure the top nut is not rusted, rain water gets trapped in that area. Black plastic covers.
s_nz,
Aug 23, 7:18pm
Regarding the RUC exemption,
It seems somewhat likely that the exemption will be extended again. Transport is a major emitter, our transport network favors private cars, we are signatories to the paris agreement, and our PM is big on the climate change issue.
mimik3,
Aug 23, 7:27pm
I highly doubt that it would be any different from what it is now, $62 per 1000kms. Roads still have to be paid for.
nikaosystems,
Aug 23, 7:39pm
tigertim, talk to Richard at HVS Motors at 300 Kaikorai Valley Road, he is very knowledgeable on the ins & outs of Nissan Leafs and im sure could answer all your questions
It seems pretty likely that any tax applied to EVs will be significantly lower than those applied to petrol and diesel vehicles at least until they make up a significant portion of the fleet, which is much further than 3 years away.
hkjoe,
Aug 23, 8:04pm
I have to say that the comments by s_nz and skylarc are among the most helpful and thorough that I have read on a motoring thread. Thanks. Personally, I would certainly be looking at buying a Leaf 2-3 years down the track, so it is of interest to me. I read recently that you can 'subscribe' to using a Leaf supplied by Mercury Energy for $400 per month.
tigertim20,
Aug 23, 8:35pm
Theres some good info in here, especially reading though the posted links, thanks for the input!.
Ive been along and had a look, and taken one on a quick drive.
Fortunately a good friend of mine owns a dealership and will look after me re: pricing etc. He's offered me a weeks use of one off his yard to get a feel for how we like it, so will pick one up tomorrow and see how it works out.
intrade,
Aug 23, 9:02pm
*24 sounds like a plan.
harm_less,
Aug 23, 11:00pm
When you take on your first EV be sure to invest another $1,000 or so on a charger capable of 7kW charge rate, and if your EV doesn't have program-ability of charging timing put the unit on a timer to allow you to use cheap off peak rates (Ecotricity). A 7kW charger will give you the ability to charge from near flat in around 3 hours.
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