Calling Jazz, re Fiat Grande Punto Dynamic advise.

Hey Jazz, been perusing your previous messages regarding the Grande, and it all makes good sense to me, so i'm an am looking at purchasing a Grande Punto Dynamic (for grandaughter), listing# 1447235428.

Tell me what you think, on this particular listing?, willing to consider something similar, safe & value. Appreciate your input.

Hi PC,

Probably the key thing with that one is your budget.

If 4K is about where the budget is topping out then it's potentially a very good buy. How reliable it will be going forward will be mostly a function of how it's been looked after. If they are cared for they are capable of seriously high km which is unusual for a budget vehicle of that size and sophistication.

The fundamental bits, body, engine, transmission tend to hold up very well. What you will start getting is niggly bits consistent with the age/milage. I would expect to do some suspension bushes, CV boots that sort of thing in the coming years with that one, as I would with anything else of that age/milage. More things if it's not been well tended.

If you go about sourcing parts/labour sensibly this is not really an issue.

I would look in to when the timing belt was done in terms of km AND time. If it's not been done in the last 5 years do it straight away. It's cheap, quick and easy to do on those. Make sure you do the waterpump at the same time though.

Speaking of which, when inspecting, pay special attention to the coolant and coolant bottle. They should be nice and clean and it should be running red/pink coolant. This is another thing I would change immediatly if there is no record of it being done in the last 4 years.

Be aware that about the only serious issue those fire motors have is it is not entirely unusual for them to blow a head gasket around the 200k mark. However they are a nice easy one to replace so this is not an end of the world scenario.

I think especially if you got it down towards $3500 that is a huge amount of safe, reliable, economical and comfortable running for your grandaughter. It won't be new car perfect but it will be hard to beat for that price.

If you have an extra thousand or so to spend and are happy to spend it, it may be worth considering a lower km example. However, if that one is in good shape, with the new clutch it sounds a fairly good bet.

Do give the transmission a good workout, those box's can start to crunch in second or third if they have been abused or worked really hard in the city for a long time.

Hope that is some help. keep the questions coming if you need.

Also. will you be servicing it including the likes of the timing belt or will that be done by a garage?

One thing you could consider at that milage is running some "K-Seal" in the cooling system as a preventative measure. Don't put any other wonder potion in it though. That one doesn't contain "gloop" that blocks things up.

I have had Fire motors up around 300K that have not done a head gasket yet though, partly luck, partly maintenance.

Also. at that price point. Nothing much else is standing out for your purposes. I would check that one out and any other Grande Punto's in your price range before considering other models. If there is no suitable Punto or you find it lacking in some way then lets talk alternatives, it's just they are a bit hard to beat.

Hey thanks Jazz, have read all the information, and dont like the thought of potential head-gasket problems, and yes, if the vehicle has an timing-belt, would most probably change the timing-belt myself. Would the diesel version such-as this be ok? listing: 1441154025. Cheers Jazz

The 1.9 JTD is a fun little rocket but for your purposes you are better off with the very simple Fire motor. I wouldn't be put off by the potential for a head gasket to go on one. Realistically it probably won't happen and if it does you would be hard to find a cheaper easier engine to do the replacement on.

In the context of the foibles of other manufacturers engines in the price range the FIRE unit is still going to be very very hard to beat from a reliability standpoint even at higher km. If you are still concerned about the potential headgasket issue, simply buy a lower km one.

BTW. to clarify a little more vs say the Diesel you posted. While those are one of the most reliable and well proven modern Diesels on the market, you still have a massive increase in sophistication and also gain other potential issues like expensive replacement of the dual mass flywheel to the mix.

To put the head gasket job in to perspective.

I think I paid about $120 delivered for a full gasket set including head bolts. I can probably change one in about 4 hours.

Also. you will LOVE doing the timing belts on them. My last one cost me about $118 for the kit including water pump and new coolant. I have done a few so can do one in less than half an hour (most of that time is doing the coolant change/fill). If you give yourself an hour or two for the first one it will be an absolute doddle.

The thing to remember with the FIRE motor is it came out in about 1983 and is still much the same except for the change from carburettor to a simple fuel injection system. That's what makes it a joy to work on, all the benefits of a modern safe vehicle with the simplicity of a motor from the 80's and a very simple 80's motor at that. Even better, it's fuel injected which boosts reliability and efficiency again, plus it can be monitored with a modern scan tool. It's the best of all worlds.

Thankyou again Jazz, truely appreciate your wealth of experience in regards to EURO vehicles, and in particular the Punto (Multipla) and now Panda, i've admired your knowledge from afar for many years.
Approx 6-yrs ago now, i purchased an Scudo Commercial Van (business) & small 2001 Punto (wife) , based on your faith in Fiats, the Scudo,served us well until we retired 2.5yrs later, no majors. Wife sold the little Punto (too small for the grandies) and purchased an Sporty Mazda MPS (rolls-eyes), but anyways, as the grandies are growing-up, we've been down the cheap & nasty Demio/corolla etc road, we are now thinking safety.
So, in saying that, will call the owner of the White Grande Punto, and see what happens. Thanks again Jazz.

Sounds good to me, i'm an novice home mechanic, and love to tinker with cars. In relation to timing belts, over the years, i've done afew timing-belts/chains, most of which were sucessful, but not all, but given the time & patients, i soon figure it out. But it sure is nice to come across an easy-timing belt job. huh.

btw: it's ironic, we are on the subject of timing-belts, only this evening i've just purchased an mitsi-lancer timing belt (grandies spare run-about).

Thanks for the appreciation PC, it's posters like you who make all the effort worth while!

Just to give you a little context, chances are your Wife's Punto will have had the 16 valve twin cam 1.2 Fire motor. (although if manual there were just a few base model 8 valve ones around)

The 1.4 in the white Grande Punto should actually be the 1.4 8 valve unit which is much simpler being single cam and half the valves. Hence my saying you will find it a pleasure to work on. Also a simpler motor than your Demio or Corolla would likely have been running.

Anyhow, if you don't mind, let us know how you get on. Having had a MK2 Punto you should have a really good idea what it's going to be like. I find the build quality and reliability of the Grande Punto even better than the Mk2 as well. Plus as you probably realise safety goes from a 4 1/2 star to a 5 star Euro Ncap rating. It's quite fun looking underneath, behind the dash etc at how the crumple zone and safety cells are designed.

Best of luck!

Cheers Jazz.

In response to the wife's older Punto, personally i loved it, mind you i'm not fussy, i'll drive anything with wheels. It went like a rocket, fuel efficient, and reliable, we serviced the Punto & Scudo at an euro mechanic in New Plymouth City, at that time and moment, i was reluctant to tinker with it, being EURO and all. But that was then, i have a-lot of time on my hands now, so i can learn EURO. In saying that, if OPEL can be classified as EURO?, then perhaps i do have some EURO experience?, changed timing-chain & various parts for a friends OPEL (problematic) light-commercial-van, what a mission, timing-kit (chain/tensioner), gaskets & tools = expensive & tedious job, even-thou successful ending, the road was long.
Jazz, will keep you informed ok mate. Good evening.

If you have worked on Opels and survived. everything else is a walk in the park!

Not all European makes/models are good Opel have made some of the worst in my opinion. You are going to love working on the Grande Punto after that!

Also, not much to learn really. Mechanically, the Grande Punto is much like working on something Japanese from the 80's and early 90's only simpler in some ways. (8 valve and no crazy carburettor with vacuum lines etc).

Electronically it's like any late model car, which is a good thing as it means safety and also modern diagnostics. That might be the new part for you, but you will love having so much more information to go on via the onboard diagnostics and not having to always get dirty to test things. This might be the new part for you, but the skills are transferable to any modern car.

The awesome thing with Fiat is if you have a laptop, you can set yourself up with a dealer grade full featured scan tool for less than $100. It's a really nice easy system to learn too. You don't have to spend the cash until you need it, but if you buy the Fiat I would suggest ordering the cable you need (really cheap) straight away then you can just buy the software instantly when you need it.

I would be most excited to help you through any tasks you come across! Optimistic people that are keen to give things a go are fun to help!

Good afternoon Jazz.

Yeh, i found the OPEL job a pain, because so much stuff had to be removed, therefore requiring expensive gaskets, to get to the part that needed attention. Not to mention the Timing Locking Tool(s) (camshaft-locking-bar & crankshaft-locking-pin & tensioner-locking-pin), and for those novice's such as myself, it would have been helpful to loosen and/or completely remove the sump aswell, because i was soon to discover, if the sump-bolts are not loosened a fraction (approx 2-to-4mm), and when installing back together, the oil-pump whines . grrrrr :)
While i had it apart, i deleted the EGR (blocked of the egr-intake-manifold-port, added the EGR Valve Blanking Plate (ebay uk) and wired an EGR device (ebay u.k) to trick ECU. Removed & cleaned intake (full of EGR soot), then removed intake-manifold-swirl-flaps (swirl-flap actuator, needed an resister wired in to trick ECU).
The vehicle nows runs great, engine smoother, with alittle more go. Oh, almost forgot, when changing timing-chain, noticed bad lobe on exhaust-cam so changed that (ebay uk), was long job, approx 2-3-months all together (most time was waiting on parts to arrive).
Same mate with the OPEL, wants the clutch done, i'm humming & harring, not keen, but he's a good mate, so will learn-up on CSC's (Concentric slave cylinders) bleeding csc's etc. gesh. !

By the way, back on the subject of Fiat, i'm looking at listing 1442860803, looks good?.
Cheers Jazz

You sound like you well and truly know what you are doing after that job!

I like the look of that Punto. It appears to be in lovely condition. My only complaint is it's the base model (give away is the plastic wheel covers) but they still come pretty well spec'd even in pop form.

It seems to be enthusiast owned and while it's a young persons car they don't seem to have modified it and it sounds well looked after. Also they look to only be the second owner.

Well worth considering in my opinion and at 70K less than the other one on the clock, that is a fair bit more life and resale you are likely to get out of it for your $1000 price difference. That is a lovely colour too, I had a Bravo in that red and it was a stunner.

Yes, will enquire and get more info, and perhaps drive up-to Hamilton to take a closer look next weekend. (as above, coolant, gear-changes, timing belt. etc)

Thanks Jazz.