Game Changing EV Batteries

tony9, Jan 3, 7:24pm

apollo11, Jan 3, 8:54pm
My understanding was that the Chinese are already slotting solid state cells into buses. I don't think solid state is vapourware.

serf407, Jan 3, 11:29pm
The chinese enovate car has a solid state battery too

2 garbage articles. Be interesting to see if the Japanese can adequately play the technology catch up game with solid state batteries.
( I wonder if Toyoda was playing a psychological game on foreign auto competitors with the 'ev over-hype' article)

tony9, Jan 4, 8:09am
They are vapourware because they don't actually exist in a commercial form that can be delivered to consumers today.

Lots of "new" technology becomes ready for commercial production reel soon now, only a small fraction actually become viable.

No vendor has commercial consumer production of solid state batteries committed for at least several years, only limited prototype examples are available, despite over 10 years development.

apollo11, Jan 4, 8:28am

tony9, Jan 4, 10:40am
From the second link.

"There’s no claim yet from Mercedes if solid-state batteries will be the foundation of their next generation EVs. This is understandable since most automakers think that these battery technology only have limited usage for EV passenger vehicles. Most of them also believe that it will be used only around the middle of the decade. Toyota is reportedly developing its own solid-stated battery. However, Panasonic, a longtime Toyota partner, says that this battery technology is still a decade away."

Does not look if it is ready for commercial EV's any time soon. Heavy vehicles may be more relevant as they are less cost sensitive for energy storage.

intrade, Jan 4, 3:16pm
Well the thing is with claims like this if electric jesus makes them you then know its just B$ . GM actuarly did try to match electric jesus . the problem is they had no one paddeling there bull$hit as well as EJ can do.

3tomany, Jan 13, 1:13pm

loose.unit8, Jan 13, 1:21pm
Toyota's new SUV debuting this year (in prototype not full production form) will apparently have solid state batteries.

harm_less, Jan 13, 1:24pm
Clarkson plugging an I-pace into a 14th century socket. Sounds about right.

bitsnpieces2020, Jan 13, 1:26pm
lol @ electric jesus.

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

s_nz, Jan 13, 5:47pm
We don't need game changing batterer's for EV's. Something like the 64kWh pack in a kia e-nero (455km WLTP rated range), or a 100kWh Tesla model S (647km EPA rated range), would be quite suffichent for most light vehicle drivers And frankly the few that it is insufficient for are likely currently better served by other technologies.

The main issue is really the cost. Even though the cost of such packs has rocketed down, they are still really expensive. Even without a breakthrough, prices are expected to continue to drop.

That said, solid state batteries really would change the game.

Regarding Clarkson's experience, With a 24kWh leaf charging from a (modern) domestic socket while slow is sufficient to get a full charge while you sleep. But the game changes with something like a 90kWh ipace (84.7kWh usable). Charge time on the latter from a wall socket is something like 40 hours. Really need to have a wall box installed to get the the charge time down to similar as the time that you sleep. I guess Clarkson cars have been loaned press cars. I don't think anybody privatly buying a ipace / etron or similar would hesitate to have a wallbox installed at home and and their farm / batch if they have those.

Really old electrical sockets and EV's isn't a great mix. Just like it's not a great idea to plug a welder or fan heater into an antique power socket.

harm_less, Jan 13, 6:05pm
Also the limited 3.6kW charge rate that a Gen 1 or 2 Leaf has in order to safeguard its battery can be supplied via a 15amp 3 pin domestic plug. This limited rate of charge for a much larger battery will as you say be woefully slow.

apollo11, Sep 28, 11:40am
The quickest way to drop the cost of batteries is to drop the amount required, or increase the energy density. The next ten years should see energy density double, assuming we still have a world economy in ten years, that is.