I know there is debate over whether other brands eg Penrite FS LV or Valvoline Maxlife are acceptable or not in a Honda auto trans eg 2.4L Accord / Civic / Stream etc. I also know the reasoning of let's be on the safe side. am auto trans rebuild is expensive however where do we find the facts on this? I appreciate that a garage may want to only install genuine Honda Z1 or its replacement DW1 to be able to show that everything has been done by the book. Fair enough. But that aside are there non Honda branded fluids out there which actually have the required Honda specs? Because of course there are horror stories involving this brand or that but what may not be known is was it a fluid such as Penrite FS LV or was it a Dex 3 Penrite that was wrongly used? Anyone who has actual facts on this I would greatly appreciate hearing from. Also who makes the Honda branded product?
intrade,
Mar 20, 8:34pm
honda was the first to need special fluids. unless you get 100% the correct spec fluid you bettr only us the honda fluids. compatible is not the correct fluids dextron 3 is guaranteed wrong , i had numerous threads about this subject over the years.
Sure but with all due respect of course Dex 3 is NOT the right fluid at all but is the Honda spec Dex V1? I think it may be but am not saying it is. I do know that Penrite show Multivehicle FS LV and it is not talking compatibility but meeting the spec if I remember correctly.
cattleshed,
Mar 20, 8:46pm
But this is a Honda dealer isn't it? If so they are bound to say this!
intrade,
Mar 20, 9:26pm
yea but this is what i seen in training seminars also like tst seminar.
pandai,
Mar 20, 9:40pm
DW-1 is made by Idemitsu
m16d,
Mar 20, 9:58pm
Well. Honda don't make oils, they just buy big drums of the stuff and put their name on it. Mrs 16d has a 3.5 V6 Accord and we had the auto serviced by Puke Honda at a hundred thou, same time as the air bag thingy. All i know, is the auto in that thing is like a mind reader and does exactly what you want. not like the D-Max. I'm only allowed to drive the Honda when it's got no gas in it. but hey what would I know. Sorry, what was the question.
cattleshed,
Mar 20, 10:10pm
However TST will need to tow the line wouldn't they? May well be sponsored by the big names so makes sense unless of course they are TOTALLY independent!
cattleshed,
Mar 20, 10:39pm
Good spotting! Their website says "ATF Type H PLUS Engineered for and meets the requirements of Honda Automatic Transmission with DW-1 and Z-1 specifications." and " Excellent seal compatibility and conditioning reduces risk of fluid leaks due to seal shrinkage, hardening and cracking". Interesting to see compatible mentioned Intrade.
Interesting. They have their own brand and apparently they supply a Honda badge engineered product.
How do we know that the recommended eg Penrite fluid is not suitable for use in a Honda trans? I wonder how much Honda only advice is driven by fear, speculation, hearsay or half truths?
msigg,
Mar 21, 10:21am
Yes cattleshed you are correct, you need to find the chemical composition, you need their fluid for warranty I think.at the end of the day it is a mechanical/hydraulic device and I'm sure there is a substitute for honda brand oil. My wife worked fof castrol oil many years ago and would get good information from the chemist who blend the oils.
skull,
Mar 21, 10:27am
It's a risk/reward problem isn't it. Is the risk of wrecking the trans worth the reward of saving $50 or so on a service that is not required that often anyway?
kazbanz,
Mar 21, 6:22pm
This is my honest opinion. The guts of Honda CVT fluid is exactly the same as with all the other CVT fluids. But the issue they had with their early to mid 2000's CVT cars was glazing up of the clutch packs causing juddering. So Honda have been forced to put very specific additives into the CVT fluid to stop this happening
stornello,
Mar 21, 7:30pm
None of the oil companies on Netlube will give a recommendation for Honda CVT's, they all say refer to dealer, even Penrite. I don't know why. maybe Honda waved the big stick and scared them off.
budgel,
Mar 21, 8:20pm
I have recently bought an older Honda as a runabout hack. As I do with all secondhand cars I buy, I change all the fluids. I am about to change the auto trans fluid, and have done a bit of research across the forums. The American forums seem to have a lot of people saying that Valvoline Max life is the one to use if you dont want to pay dealer prices. I like the fact that this 2004 car still has a transmission dipstick. The issue I face is twofold, Valvoline Max Life doesnt seem as readily available here as it is in the US, so isnt super inexpensive like it is there, and if I buy the proper Honda brand it is gonna cost about 10% of the value of the vehicle which is only a hack.
I think I will base my decision on how long I intend to keep the car.
cattleshed,
Mar 22, 1:06pm
Yes I hear you and that could be said for a number of things not just Honda verses whatever other fluid. I agree there is the fear of damage but then you need to do your research and when you do you find out what the particular genuine fluid is for YOUR transmission. So for an example maybe you find that Honda DW1 auto trans fluid what it is supposed to have in it. So that IS what you look for on other brands. Hello! Here is Penrite Multi vehicle LV and it says specifically that it IS DW1. So my question is this, is it reasonable for the fear to remain given that Penrite is the huge company that it is, and IF their MV LV product destroys transmissions or makes them operate improperly even, where is the massive outcry and bucket loads of law suits that would HAVE to exist and be known about?
budgel,
Mar 22, 2:39pm
I think if it was an American company and had multiple product failures there would be lawsuits. Being an Australian company the threshold is a lot higher, just like here. Americans have much more of a lawsuit culture, and even a low percentage failure rate is still a hell of a lot of vehicles.
bryshaw,
Mar 22, 6:32pm
Hondas with true auto use their own fluids and I have never had a problem. I would rather pay the extra every few years than have a huge transmission bill. Also they check how it is running and changing and of course replace the gasket.
cattleshed,
Mar 22, 7:05pm
No Honda have product manufactured by another company. Castrol as well as Valvoline and Fuchs are other companies that offer DW1 fluid.
intrade,
Mar 22, 7:06pm
watch my oil thread he talks auto trans fluids also
cattleshed,
Mar 22, 7:12pm
The real point is if other brands are Honda trans killers or offer poor performance there will be a lot of noise /claiming going on. Have you heard of any? Remember we are talking about correctly specified fluid not someone putting in the wrong fluid in as that is another story and catastrophe will occur even if genuine Honda branded of course.
budgel,
Mar 22, 7:20pm
Cattleshed, you are right to say there is no noise about it, but most noise is about problems with new and near new vehicles. By the time a trans fails, it is usually in a well used car. Nobody expects guarantees with old vehicles, so it slips under the radar maybe. in my opinion.
cattleshed,
Mar 22, 8:13pm
You may have a point there. Whichever way you look at it there are big oil companies putting their name on a product that they say meets the spec and their prices for a Honda specified fluid are approx $60 retail for 4L. Even at retail that is about a 1/3 of the Honda price for 4L and for what? I was speaking to a well known auto trans specialist and he said straight out that there is no need to put Honda BRANDED fluid in and spoke highly of the CORRECT Castrol product for the application. Note we were not talking about CVT's just NON CVT Honda autos. I do think there is a lot of fear mongering that is persuading people to say "better play it safe". Personally I am all for checking it out. Sure if it does NOT check out go genuine but I am yet to see real proof.
marte,
Aug 31, 1:17pm
For a saving of $120 by using nonstandard fluid VS what happens when you go to sell it & have to mention that "It's hasn't got the specified Honda fluid in it". I'd go with the original fluid & keep the receipt.
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