Australia dont need this law as they dont import 2nd hand vehicles , they import NEW ones or manufacture NEW ones locally , and yes , they do have laws about emmisions and DO make sure their new vehicles that are being sold comply with latest emmisions.(Euro IV compliant) Maybe it is you who is not up with the facts ,. and calls others fools .
elect70,
Dec 3, 12:49am
The new cardealers have been lobbyinggovt for years to close outJUIC & forcepeople into" eco freindly "new cars . .Yet more energy&materialsused to build new every 10 years than is recovered from scrap.But makes them feel goodto think they are helping the enviroment , esp, the green lot
amberjandal,
Dec 3, 12:50am
Oh , you mean submission groups , yes new car manufacturers have their say , as did the import industry in the high court last week , they all have their say but it is the Government that makes THE LAW and that is the process. You make it sound like new car manufacturers have the government in their pocket which they do not .
elect70,
Dec 3, 12:56am
Remember the cash for clunkersthey tried in some states of USAciting emissions.Car Craft mag pulled astang off the linetook it to workshop gave it a tune up& full service & it passed the emissions regs for next 5years . Once the scam was exposed it was dropped .
kazbanz,
Dec 3, 1:03am
What planet are you on! The PURPOSE of the law has nothing to do with cars.Thesoposed purpose of the law is to reduce air pollution. If you were actually up to speed you would know the Australians sighned the SAMEagreement we did however have chosen a different aproach to implimentationand ALSO anounced that due to the current economic climate would be DELAYING IMPLIMENTATION. Australia DOES import second hand cars and has done so for many years.To be clear I was personally involved in this so no its noth hypothetical. Incidently given you are touting auzzie.I wonder which manufacturer has applied for exemption from the 2012 NZ emission laws because theirNEW cars don't meet the emissionstandard required!
amberjandal,
Dec 3, 1:03am
Not quite right , the US auto industry was in so much financial trouble that cash for clunkers was introduced to give it a much needed jab in the arm and it worked , emmisions was also part of the program. It was a two pronged idea.
kazbanz,
Dec 3, 1:06am
YEP --that is EXACTLY the point I've been making. Its really simple. Name an actual measureable emission level that ALL fresh imports -used or new must meet or not be allowed on the road. Then apply that same level--or a slightly higher level(ie allow them more emmissions)to ALL vehicles on the road or tracks.
wasser61,
Dec 3, 1:10am
No, they introduced their laws a lot earlier than we did.Oh what is this that I read. Australia, ADR 79/02 to comply to EURO 4 Standards introduced from 2008 model year. Euro 4 Introduced in Europe January 2005. Oh wait, Japan 2005 and the USA 2004. So what was that you are saying that NO ONE has introduced emission laws to help protect their environment!
amberjandal,
Dec 3, 1:15am
Nice to have someone who knows what they are talking about. My point is it will be a good thing for NZ for imported 2nd hand cars to slow down and eventually stop. That way NZ will stand on its own 2 feet in the motor industry again one day. Prices may go up in the short term but so will your trade and one day you will end up being proud of the new car you buy , not the 5 year old oddball rebuilt wound back import that only really benifits the Japaneese.
extrayda,
Dec 3, 1:18am
elect70 & Kaz put forward a much better solution.How many people who have a car that is 'running fine' are going to rush out to buy one of these newer "greener" more expensive Jap imports (or even "NZ New" secondhand vehicles).I'd say almost none.I will continue to run my 97 Cefiro until it starts to cost too much to fix.I have no idea how much emissions it puts out (doesn't smoke or anything, but I understand there is more to it that that).The smarter option would be to make it part of the WOF testing procedure (Waitakere Testing Station used to have it as an option, which didn't result in pass/fail, but let you know).If your car was over, then it would have to be rectified before it passed.Maybe an exemption of some sort for classics.This would get the smoky POS's off the road much quicker than making 2nd hand imports more expensive.
extrayda,
Dec 3, 1:20am
amber - I might be missing something here, but these new cars would also still be imported, so apart from not importing second hand cars anymore, whats the difference!Where is the benefit!More importantly how many people can actually afford to buy a new car (or would choose to take the horrendous depreciation).When they on sell this 2nd hand car, how different will it really be from the 2nd hand jap import we get today! Not taking the piss, just curious to know if I am missing something obvious !
extrayda,
Dec 3, 1:22am
And as far as the wound back speedo thing goes, I don't think it's a rare thing for people to wind back / disconnect speedos in NZ vehicles, which is probably less likely to get picked up (as far as disconnecting goes. There was someone in another thread I read today saying they were doing it.
amberjandal,
Dec 3, 1:29am
About 90,000 new cars will be sold in NZ this year , so there is still plenty of people/companies who buy new , when they get rid of them in 3 years or whatever the new owner will know its real history and it will be a known model in NZ that has been imported by a manufacturer ie Ford , Toyota , Holden. I would much rather buy that than a model never sold new here that has a history that cant really be checked and most importantly keeps the money in NZ as opposed to sending it to Japan and helping them keep their total fleet newer. In the long run we will have a better quality fleet .
extrayda,
Dec 3, 1:38am
amber - I see your point to some extent.However people like me (and I'm not very unique!) would not be in the position to want to buy a 3 year old vehicle (even though a lot of the depreciation would already have hit I guess) - I would be the person buy it when it was 10 years old, so maybe another couplee of owners down the track, at which point mileage and service history become rather muddy.Once out of warrenty period I suspect a lot of people stop taking their cars back to the manufacturers garages, and start going to "the local" instead.I used to hate Jap imports, back in the day when they all seemed to have been clocked, were strange models, and generally quite crap. Now however I have had a variety of Jap imports a 91 Skyline, 94 Capella, 97 Cefiro, 98 Accord, 2001 Estima - all of which have been reliable and have not had any weird part requirements / expenses.The biggest piece of crap I have ever owned was a 'NZ New' Mitsi Sigma (which DID have a full service history).Actually I tell a lie, the worst was a brand new Daewoo Lacetti, which had all sorts of issues (some safety related), and the Holden dealership were terrible to deal with almost every time.
extrayda,
Dec 3, 1:40am
Agreed on the not really knowing history for Jap imports point though.I always buy a car on how it feels / drives / looks, not just mileage and service history (although obviously that plays a part).
amberjandal,
Dec 3, 2:03am
extrayda , mate , there are imports that are lemons and NZ new stuff that are lemons , my point is more about what the effect of the emmision law will be , not so much about clean air but more about cleaning up the NZ motor industry and being benificial to NZ in the long run as a whole. One day we may even be like Japan , selling our second hand cars to an overseas market.
rover79,
Dec 3, 2:26am
Last 3 times I remember this happening, it was a sales pitch for salesmen to get cars sold. If they want to do something about pollution why don't they get rid of trucks on the roads. We have a railway there thats hardly used, so far today there have been 2 trains go past with about 50 carriages on each.
wasser61,
Dec 3, 4:07am
At the end of the day the day there will still be second hand imports, just you can't bring in anything that doesn't comply to the emission standards that are required. I just find it amusing the the second hand dealers are all whining like little pigs, yet we all now that they will increase the price and make a few more bucks off the same car that they sold this year. I was on the other end in '96 trying the get a moratorium placed on the deregulating of the automotive industry in this country for 2 years so we could build new cars for export, but the second hand dealers didn't want that, as they thought that it would interfere with them selling more cheap crappy imports. In the end we lost so now it is nice to see them having to comply.
mm12345,
Dec 3, 4:18am
Very unlikely, the "quality of the fleet" in NZ prior to deregulation and cheap used imports was legendary and commented on worldwide.
franc123,
Dec 3, 4:45am
LMAO yeah wasn't it just.Poms coming here in the mid-late '80's couldn't believe that Kiwis were still driving '60's and early 70's Vivas, Avengers, BMC 1100's and the like, and that such vehicles were still changing hands for several thousand for good tidy ones and there was no shortage of people lining up to buy even rough ones for bogging up/valve grinding/reringing whatever.Oh and also I seem to recall that speedo disconnecting was alive and well in NZ even before the Japs were even making cars, it paid dividends!
zetec,
Dec 3, 5:07am
In the 60's in NZ when I was a kid growing up, I remember my Dad could not buy a new car, as you had to have overseas money (eg. GB pounds) to pay for it, and you weren't allowed to send money offshore! So most Kiwis (other than farmers and other exporters/importers) had to buy used, and used cars up to 3 years old were normally more expensive than new! I don't see a realignment of the used vehicle import rules bringing those days back, in general as a country we have to move with the times, and I assume safety standards as well as emissions are a driver in this change. Maybe in time we won't see so many old people movers and 4wds belching diesel particulates. Perhaps also we will see some innovation in the new car industry, there are some good low priced cars being bulit in India (as an example the Ford Figo which is based on the previous Fiesta and has 4 star NCAP and meets all emission laws) that could fill a market gap here.
floscey,
Dec 4, 7:03pm
I cant see that crap imports that are piled up a presentselling for any more than they are now. Whos going to pay $2k more for a Platz, Vitz ,JAZZetc!
amberjandal,
Dec 4, 9:27pm
Supply and demand.when they sell and have stopped coming in to NZ in volume then we will see I suppose , Ask yourself again in 6 months. I agree the crappy ones wont go up in price but good new NZ cars 5-8 years old , absolutely , its happening now.
elect70,
Dec 5, 1:10am
Another argument is thatthe less well off( beneficeriesetc) who cant afford a car under 5 years old& nomoreoldercars coming in , so they hold on to their old clunkeruntil its ordered off the road . The original idea of JUIC was to make reasonably safeless polluting cars affordable for the masses .New laws could have the opposite effect . I am sceptical of the saftey / emmissionsargument put forward as the reason for new regulations . I see it merely as tool to keepcar makersin business . Its the nut behind the wheel thats the biggest saftey problem
kazbanz,
May 3, 1:45pm
There is a cynical viewthat in fact it is indeed pure simple economics driving the law change. That master Joyce knows full well that in the bigger picture it wont make a jot of difference to the air quality . BUT what it will do is force those lower end blue collar workers to hang onto their cars for a year or two more or move to public transport . In essence a very effective means of enforced savings.Ieno HP reduces that persons level of personal debt for a year or two
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