Maybe Jaz could list what dealerships he has been a mechanic for then list what he drives.
phillip.weston,
Jan 28, 4:29am
Mate to be honest that's basically what you do to others, you instantly rubbish other "Asian" cars (just call them Japanese for fucks sakes, we both know we aren't dealing with anything else), but as soon as someone makes a comment or slightly rubbishes your precious Euros you go defensive instantly and then the whole thread gets ruined by your ramblings.
There's making a point, and then there's just going too far. You always go too far.
3tomany,
Jan 28, 4:32am
you have completely missed my point, as i only buy new cars and am happy with the devaluationbecause i like maintanance free cars and if it does break someone else pays. also my budgets dont make secondhand cars cheaper to run anyway. the point i was making is for fiat to devalue so bad from new it puts it of my shopping list
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 4:36am
Quite a lot of it is Fiat. Half the engines and transmissions for starters.
The whole debate is pretty laughable really. VW have recently taken a stake in Suzuki as well. The Fiat Diesels are expected to be exchanged for VW units as a result in the next lineup.
Pretty much VW is the force to be reckoned with nowdays, they have money to burn (just look at the Veyron and development of the DSG gearbox etc) and are busy lining up asian manufacturers for more purchases.
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 4:37am
Well thats not a problem then. You would likely be a great candidate for a Suzuki or Toyota then. Top marks, correct car for the job!
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 4:41am
I refer to them as Asian because that then includes the Chinese and Korean stuff as and when appropriate.
Its not about rubbishing the Japanese cars. how many times do I have to spell it out. I would buy them (and have done in the past)if they were priced correctly. But they are not.
If the Suzuki was priced the same as the Fiat it would be a valid contender. However its priced the same as a Golf and therefore just like the new Punto (which is priced similar to the Golf secondhand) it fails to be good value.
Why you guys get so precious about things I do not know. Just grab a calculator and use some logic instead of old habits to guide you and see for yourself.
3tomany,
Jan 28, 4:42am
sorry joel14for letting jazzpianoma destroy youre thread with his selfopiniated opinion and sorry for getting into his argument i should have known better. just ignor him as i will do from now on so not to ruin anyone elses thread in future
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 4:43am
Because its not a cash cow. I told you first hand there was no money in the likes of Punto's.
Why is there no money in Punto's and the like!
Because in other countries they are valued properly and here they are not.
Just like the NZ auto industry is no true reflection on value the warranty industry is not as well. Again look overseas and you will see true and proper reflections in their warranty costs and claim rates.
What I am saying about dealers is that they are not necessarily intentionally misleading people. They don't wake up in the morning and go "right Im off to intentionally discredit non-asian vehicles.
Its just something that happens by default while they are accentuating the positives of their asian cars.
When you are selling a car with 4 airbags for the price of one with 12 of course you are going to speak VERY loudly about any kind of advantage in the cost of maintenance.
What you arn't going to bother to do is sit down with a calculator and see whether any slight maintenance advantage is actually offset by better economy and purchase price. Its not in your interests to do so.
Its also a psychological factor. You are inherently a good person, human brains don't really cope with inconsistent information. They generally pick a side of the fence. and of course dealers will be on the side consistent with what they say on a daily basis.
This last effect BTW is one played upon by the North Koreans very successfully to brainwash captured American prisoners during the Korean war.
kelsie21,
Jan 28, 4:46am
I test drove 3 swifts, 2 sports and a 1500 std, then took a mazda axela 2.3 for a drive and it won my vote!
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 4:55am
That sounds great dosn't it. but again its out of context.
Firstly there is next to no competition in our warranty market.
Secondly with such a small population size there are several factors that make it much easier for warranty companies to focus on Asian vehicles.
Thirdly, these are the same vehicles as used in other countries (usually under muc more harsh conditions as ours) sure there are minor differences but overall they are effectively the same cars.
There is no magic New Zealand boodyman that makes cars that are perfectly reliable in Germany inherently unreliable in NZ.
The thing is Kaz, I don't want you to change your view. It allows you to feed your family as its consistent with making money.
Just understand that the catch22 of not actually having any NZ warranty claim data does well to feed your argument. Don't expect the warranty companies over here to release any data any time soon either. because if they did it would expose the myths and they would lose a high margin segment.
Right now they have their cake and eat it too as they benefit from the "you are buying an unreliable Euro you NEED warranty insurance" and gosh darn it. that warranty just happens to make them twice as much!
theunicorn,
Jan 28, 5:22am
This sort of observation, which is quite misleading, cannot help the original poster in choosing a car - other than by demonstrating the quality of one posters thinking.
Looking at TradeMe price for 2005 onwards cars under 100,000km Swifts $12,000 to $27,000 Golfs $17,000 to $80,000
Looking at TradeMe price for 2005 onwards cars under 60,000km Swifts $12,000 to $27,000 Golfs $19,000 to $80,000
Looking at TradeMe price for 2005 onwards cars under 30,000km Swifts $15,000 to $27,000 Golfs $24,000 to $80,000
poohy99,
Jan 28, 5:45am
Yep, if Golfs were priced in the ballpark as my Swift Sport I'd be driving a new Golf instead. Easy 10K difference and really the Golf is a different class of car.
stevo2,
Jan 28, 6:00am
Good for you kelsie21. Mrs Stevo also drives a 2300cc Axela and it is a very good car. However your back to back drives are not really comparable. An Axela is in a totally different league to a Swift. Cheers Stevo
mcscottwgtn,
Jan 28, 6:11am
The swift sport could be the modern mini cooper. They are fun to drive. The mazda 3 is a lot bigger and better made - not flimsy. I like the mazda, but its getting old. Remember having one as a rental (same shape as today) in 2004.
joel14,
Jan 28, 6:52am
Wow I am totally confused but my gut feeling is that for theprice of a swift sport I could get a mazda axela and have a bit more car for my money and a bit more solidness around me!. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong.
nick_o_teen,
Jan 28, 7:38am
get a corolla runx they are awesome lil cars to, very popular as well.
theunicorn,
Jan 28, 7:40am
I agree, the Axela is a much larger and more solid vehicle at around the same price as a Swift Sport. And if you want an automatic, then the larger Mazda engine with its stronger low end and midrange should be much easier to live with than the more peaky Suzuki engine.
cocabowla,
Jan 28, 7:45am
he drives : most of us mad !
zirconium,
Jan 28, 7:54am
Definitely more fun to drive the mazda, and more sensible room in the back seat, but make sure you test-drive one with the transmission you are interested in. :)
wrong2,
Jan 28, 8:20am
a commen opinion across the mechanic spectrum
wrong2,
Jan 28, 8:22am
this is how you respond to info/facts that isnt praising the punto
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 8:23am
End of the day you can buy a 2005 Golf like this for under 13K from a dealer with new cambelt tensioners and waterpump. 332164176
Sure its got 110K on the clock but I never said they cost the same. Its just ludicrous that the Suzuki is even in the same ballpark let alone being able to buy a Golf with a few more km's for the lower end of what you buy a Suzuki for.
Like I said, I looked very hard at the Suzuki when I bought work cars when they had just come out some years ago. I was expecting great things given how sharp it looked but when I test drove them (brand spanking new) they didn't come close to the then 5 year old Punto I already had.
The manual one was actually O.K and quite acceptable but the Auto was a pig. There was no way I was going to put up with something screaming down the highway and revving its guts through the gears when the older Punto would cruise at 100km/ at just 1950RPM.
The whole point here is not that the Suzuki is terrible. its not. But it is insanely overpriced based on how much car you get for your money. Its basically no more advanced or better than small cars of 10 years ago. Its just a product of slick marketing and a very sharp looking body.
If you don't actually stop and consider what you are and are not getting for the money you won't see how they are poor value.
If they were $6000 secondhand, I would recommend them in a heartbeat.
wrong2,
Jan 28, 8:25am
that is true for almost all minis , & the superminis especially
i dont know why the swift is considered a nice looking car either . ginormous fat nose & massive bumpers
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 8:26am
BTW, you can tell from what others are suggesting and comparing it to that very few if anyone in this thread actually appreciates how very very advanced the likes of the Golf is by comparison.
Its like a commuter plane vs the space shuttle.
thejazzpianoma,
Jan 28, 8:28am
No problems like that in the Punto, they designed it so you don't lose space to bulbus but styly looking doors etc.
We would regually cart 4 adults to meetings in other towns etc for work in ours. Take a Punto loaded with 4 over the kaimais then try the same in the Swift and you will understand exactly what I mean.
Is not just space but cruising comfort. Also. you don't have to just compare it to the Punto if thats not your cup of tea. There are likely plenty of better small cars for the money.
Since the public registrations are closed, you must have an invite from a current member to be able to register and post in this thread.
Have an account? Login here.