Hi all.This concerns my 1994 Ford Econovan Maxi with a 2 litre FE petrol engine.It has done 380,000km and been fairly heavily loaded 24/7 from new, as it is a hi-top campervan.
To cut a long story short, I am doing exploratory surgery on this engine to try and determine why the main crank pulley has developed a shocking 'wobble'.It has got to the point where the fan belt is being thrown off.
The triple belt pulley (only a single belt used though) is attached to the lower cambelt sprocket, rather than being bolted on by the main crankshaft bolt.I have removed the pulley, main bolt, all the covers etc and the cambelt.
Now the question is:How does the lower cambelt sprocket come away from the crankshaft!It is loose and moves quite easily just being pulled by hand about 8mm or so, but then just wont come any further, even with some reasonably heavy 'persuasion'.Is there some tricky-dicky mechanism I can't see!
The other thing is that with the main bolt out the sprocket has quite a few degrees of turn on the crankshaft even when pressed hard into position. In other words the sprocket turns a bit but the crank does not.Is this right!My logic says it should be locked in place with a keyway because otherwise the timing would be wrong.Or have I missed something!(I have recently had some problems with ignition timing as well, which was causing power issues and a large increase in fuel consumption)
I need to get the sprocket off and have a look at it, any tips muchly appreciated.
Cheers all
phillip.weston,
May 13, 5:06am
keyway is flogged out
phillip.weston,
May 13, 5:09am
happened to my 6A12 V6 because I didn't tighten up the crankshaft pulley bolt enough the last time I had the crank pulley off. Took about 6 months to wear a chunk out of the crank pulley, and enlargen the slot for the keyway on the crank by about 1mm in either direction and deformed the crank around the slot ever so slightly - enough to stop the crank sprocket from sliding off the crankshaft.
NZTools,
May 13, 5:10am
It's a common fault on mazda/ford engines of that era. If the crank pulley bolt isnt correctly torqued up, it comes loose, and flogs out the keyway and wrecks the key. You will need a new pulley, and a specialist to repair the crankshaft if it is even repairable.,The cambelt pully will require a puller to get it off.
johnf_456,
May 13, 5:14am
Exactly right
saxman99,
May 13, 6:16am
I was afraid of all of that.I'll get the puller out then and give it a wee nudge.According to the mechanic that helped us out when we were on the road having troubles the main bolt was loose, tightening it didn't help much so I guess the damage was done.
If I'm lucky might I find the sprocket is munted but crank OK!If the crank is naffed I guess it's transplant time.- .hmmm.- .
NZTools,
May 13, 7:33pm
The keyway is in the crank, and it's stuffed There are guys that can repair them in place, with a special resin. It works well, but it is expensive.
saxman99,
May 13, 9:49pm
OK cool, thanks for that.Who/what sort of business should I be searching for for that resin fix!
phillip.weston,
May 13, 9:59pm
I had called the guy, he is based somewhere in the country but flies all around the place fixing up broke keyways. He was going to charge about $700 all up, to which I decided against. I ended up replacing the crank and bearings at less than half the price, but more mucking around pulling the engine out and putting it on a stand (I needed to do the clutch anyhow so wasn't a big issue as the box was already out).
saxman99,
May 13, 10:00pm
Hmmm.At 380,000 k's I'm thinking it's time for a reco.
paul271,
May 14, 12:04am
taylor automotive in Auckland city do the crank repairs in place, without pulling the engine apart. You may have to remove it from the van tho.
snoopy221,
May 14, 1:33pm
Oh and in no way does the above post reflect in any way badly on Taylor Automotive-quite the reverse. Having known Tom Personaly since the 90's in your case the advice i give-is with respect for Tom. [Just so happens i know Keith as well-LOL-actually might have put Tom onto Keith-LOL]
saxman99,
May 15, 2:04am
Cool, thanks for that Snoopy
phillip.weston,
May 15, 2:10am
might just be easier and cheaper to source a lower kms good condition 2nd hand engine and put it in. probably not worth the $700 to repair the crank keyway in place on a tired engine, and probably not worth sinking $2-3k+ into a full engine rebuild either. Those FE van engines are easy and cheap to find.
franko171,
May 15, 2:27am
watch out guys someone mite not like u being helpfull.
saxman99,
Jun 1, 8:08pm
Hi all, thanks for all the comments, just an update in case anyone cares:
I did manage to get the crank sprocket off with a puller, which naffed it; the woodruffe key was also completely destroyed.The keyway in the crank was indeed badly flogged out and was therefore the root of the problem, probably caused by the main bolt coming loose.
I used Pratley steel cement glue epoxy goop stuff to repair the keyway and effectively glued a new pulley and key to the crank and then did the bolt up super tight with a long bar and loctite.
While performing all of this work I discovered that somebody has put the top cam sprocket on incorrectly (It can go in any one of four ways) which was the cause of much head scratching for a while.
Put it all back together, set the ignition timing and it's running better than ever.Yay.
The only thing that remains to be seen now is how long the Pratley steel cement glue epoxy goop stuff lasts before it gives up.
Cheers all
phillip.weston,
Jun 1, 8:43pm
I would get a rattle gun on that crank bolt to do it up super super tight, often just a power bar isn't enough. Mitsubishi crank pulley bolts need to be done up to 190Nm and if it isn't anywhere near as tight as that then that's when it starts to wear out the keyway. Once that cement is on I don't think it will be coming off again any time soon! I came across an engine which had the keyway repaired but the cement was smeared everywhere, even under the crankshaft pulley bolt. The bolt was so reluctant to come out of its thread, and there was no way the crank pulley was coming off without damaging it. Lucky the engine was being removed in order to be replaced with another as it had been run completely dry of oil and big ends were stuffed.
saxman99,
Jun 1, 9:04pm
No room for a rattle gun in there unfortunately.I used a metre-long steel pipe over the standard power bar for leverage.
andrewph,
Jun 2, 5:57am
I was going to suggest cleaning it down and using needit. But you have already done it. We got atleast 5 years out of a 3y toyota that did the same. then the van was sold. It does last. Doing it properly is always better.
snoopy221,
Jun 2, 12:42pm
While performing all of this work I discovered that somebody has put the top cam sprocket on incorrectly (It can go in any one of four ways) which was the cause of much head scratching for a while.
aye b or c.LOL good to have an update on this sad to see keiths no removed as i have lost it me damn self ATM. but end of the day if ya nuts tight ya sweet. tis juss slack arses (no nutters) leavin damn C rank pulleys loose that is the problemo. Keith does use amalgam-I.E. SERIOUS liquid metal. but shyte even silicon to take up the wear gap and TIGHT NUTIIE and well. 30 ta 40 K's down the road ya know ya still goin. (Onya MATE for being a damn KIWI and getten ER Goin AGAIN). aLL THE BEST.Mike.
saxman99,
Jun 2, 9:10pm
Ta Mike.I dunno the make-up of the Pratleys but mixing it was like trying to stir Blu-Tac.My mechanic mate is a GC and he lent me the stuff so I didn't have to buy a whole packet for one small job.
I'm a big believer in having a crack yourself, you learn stuff that way. I always thought if I'd got chucked out of music school I would've wound up over in engineering!
Cheers
jason18,
Jun 2, 9:27pm
Same thing happened to my little laser hatch. Flogged keyway. Kept spitting belt off. Fixed it with some of that metal paste that turns rock solid. Its still going as far as I know.
johnf_456,
Jun 2, 9:43pm
Good old kiwi ingenuity gluing it.
totalcommercial,
Jun 2, 9:46pm
we can suply new crank pulley and keyway for $120 see our number in services
saxman99,
May 2, 2:16pm
Errr.Thanks, but I already did the job, as above.(The pulley and key were $90 from Ford BTW).
Since the public registrations are closed, you must have an invite from a current member to be able to register and post in this thread.
Have an account? Login here.