How much current can I expect a starter solonoid for Nissan SR20VE to draw, just the solenoid itself. I just tested all the new wiring in the car (started from scratch) and had the push button start blow its 20A fuse after approx 6 seconds of being engaged, this is just running the solonoid itself.
I am looking at rewiring that so that it drives a relay and I can run a higher current but then need to know what I need to accommodate.
morrisman1,
Jul 18, 11:24am
One thing to note, is that this is with the main feed for the starter motor not connected, I just wanted to test that the circuit for the starter was operating, not wind the engine over. Will this have made a difference!
cowlover,
Jul 18, 12:24pm
Is that a solinoid that gets it's pullin coil winding earth thru the actual starter windings!I wonder if it was trying to draw enough grunt to spin the starter!
skin1235,
Jul 18, 3:15pm
the solenoid is no different to a light bulb morrisman, and you can check then direct across600amp jumperleads on the battery, it will use no more than it is rated for and solenoids are not rated at 20amp plus, ie the one you have has shorted the coil
skin1235,
Jul 18, 11:06pm
I can imaging a possible scenario where it may blow a fuse and yet be perfectly okay
testing on the bench and having the fuse in the one wire that goes to the starter hooked onto the high amp connection - then triggering the solenoid from there
as the solenoid pulls fully in it will connect that wire to the armature direct - could account for the 6 sec delay
if that is how you've connected it you have connected it wrong to check the solenoid
correct way would be earth to case , pos to solenoid spade , and as said above it will barely pull 5 amps, more likely 3 amps, any more is a failed circuit
bigfatmat1,
Jul 18, 11:57pm
I will disagree with this the solenoid has two windings a pull in and a hold in the pull in is operated off the key switch can spike to 80amps. once the solenoid is pulled in the batt supply (which you left disconnected) will connect to the hold in this eases the load off the switch you need the batt supply connected. otherwise it will draw to much current and burn out the the pull in coil as the pull in coil is a lighter wound coil.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 19, 12:01am
the hold in winding will only hold in when the contacts in side the solenoid are engaged and there is a batt supply connected to them.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 19, 12:22am
not ruling out a shorted coil though.
sgrants,
Jul 19, 7:49am
Nah you got it a bit ar$e about face here BFM ! start button or key switch feeds both pull and hold windings. pull in earth's through starter motor, once solenoid has "pulled in" the battery feed powers starter and solenoid relies on the hold in winding via it's own earth , Rough average current draw for jap starters . . . 30 Amp for pull in 8 Amp for hold in.
morrisman1,
Jul 19, 10:11am
Thanks guys, Ive relayed the starter solenoid trigger circuit so no more excessive load on the switch. A small experiment:If I leave starter feed disconnected the fuse goes red in a matter of 4 seconds. If I connect the starter feed and allow the engine to wind over, it doesn't blow the fuse so must be a lot less continuous load on it with the starter feed connected
(edited to reword slightly)
cowlover,
Jul 19, 11:35am
Dont think so! I've got a Nissan schemaic in front of me.Key feeds pull in winding.Once main contacts connect then feeds hold windings from main contact.Test procedure for solinoid is to check continuity between S and solinoid body.And then check continuity from S and M terminal.In other words two windings.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 12:31am
read the post the pull in will spike its temporary untill the hold in holds the the solenoid in as sgrants explains over my incorrect explaination and most vehicle ign switches handle 30+ amps start switches are always rated 20+ amps. put an ammeter in and try it. starter circuits arenot generally fused separate unless there is a relay in place. thebatt feed to ign switch maybe fused via a fusible link. ignition switches are generally 5mm cable as well and 3mm cable is usually feed to a starter solenoid which has a nominal rating of 32 amps and as above hold in earthed to solenoid housin pull in is earthed to motor once both windings to start terminal once the contacts engage the motor has power releasing the pull in winding and utilising the hold in winding only.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 12:36am
also if fitting a relay 20/30a its not uncommon to leave the batt supply to relay unfused.providing its close to starter.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 6:23am
the fuse for ignition circuits is only what you state after the ignition switch once it has branched off to its various circuits that may also be ignition the actual fuse for the ignition switch is on the battery side before it is switched will be a fusible link. ranging anywhere between 30 to 80 amps. who said a spade is 6 amp. they take upto 6mm cable. they are in fuse boxes that have 40 amp fuses in I dont know where you get your info from but its far from real world. I am not saying fit a relay Just pointing out your poor understanding. 80 amp is not uncommon for a solenoid ok i may of taken the extreme and not apllicable in this case.go on find a solenoid on a starter that draws less than 10 amps post back when you find one I tested several in my down time all were round the 19 amp momentarily then sat at about 13amp put this on a scope I garente that it would be momentarily more than 19amp just my voltmeter is slow.Also I have seen hundreds of key switches fail starter motors stay engaged with engine running never ever seen a fire apart from in freightliner argossy. Ill admit not pretty when you pull them apart normally been pretty hot but never a fire.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 6:26am
also op has already stated once connected correctly no fuse blow this is because its dropping the pull in wiriding out of the equation
NZTools,
Jul 20, 6:38am
Skin, re-read post 13. BFM is correct.
morrisman1,
Jul 20, 6:43am
if you read my post you would understand that once the main starter feed was connected the fuse was no longer blowing. I relayed because the push button was rated at 10A and I dont want to stuff it by putting a short 30A burst through it.
Wiring is all proper size, I matched the size that the car originally had. I have a battery master switch about 2 inches from the starter button, should anything go wrong I isolate that and everything is disconnected immediately.
This is a race car, so dont worry about the wife and kids (I dont have either anyway). My setup exceeds that which Nissan originally used, I have no worries about the safety of it now. When I made my original post, I did not understand that the current would burst 30A then reduce to 10A but only with the starter feed connected.
NZTools,
Jul 20, 6:48am
It popped a fuse when the main positive lead from the battery wasdisconnected from the starter motor. In the real world, nobody is going to try and start the car with the poitive lead disconnected from the starter.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 6:50am
because it was not connected to the the batt feed so pull in was not dropping out. a spade will handle 40 amps its whats on the bottom of a 30/40 amp relay is it not.
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 7:09am
6.3mm 50 amp 8mm
NZTools,
Jul 20, 7:17am
any aftermarket Hella or narva 30 amp relay has 6.3mm spade terminals. they are as common as muck
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 7:27am
most ignition switches 5 -6mm wiring 40amps again alot have loom connector plusgs 6.3mm
bigfatmat1,
Jul 20, 7:29am
btw that should of read 6.3mm 40amp 8mm 50amp
snoopy221,
Jul 20, 7:38am
They sorta call em a ***Pull in** and a hold in. Because the pull in is not capable of holding in
the solenoid has two windings a pull in and a hold in the pull in is operated off the key switch can spike to 80amps. once the solenoid is pulled in the batt supply (which you left disconnected) will connect to the hold in this eases the load off the switch you need the batt supply connected. otherwise it will draw to much current and burn out the the pull in coil as the pull in coil is a lighter wound coil.
pullers, holders and back in the day we had the ole crash bash wham bam thankee mam.LOL
sgrants,
Jul 20, 9:10am
as I said the ave pull in is 30 amp, with out the main battery feed connected the voltage follows shortest route to earth through pull in winding, with battery feed connectedstarter will power up and solenoid engage feed will flow through hold in (8 amp ) winding ! The pull in circuit is well capable of holding it in but will not do so for long as the 30 + amps will soon burn it out !Blah Blah Blah !
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