another point to consider is that alot of larger rear wheel drive cars, commdores, falcons etc actually handle horribly if you fit two brand new tyres on the rear - they will creat the sensation of over steer, which is not driver friendly, and in that case new tyres fitted to the front with 4-6 psi more pressure in them than the rear will produce a much nicer handling car
NZTools,
Jul 27, 10:03am
Regularly. Today it was down a muddy hill in a brand new $150,000 tractor with 12 ton of loaded silage wagon on behind. It wasnt going to turn for anyone.
My point is, as a rule, Understeer is a lot safer and more managable than oversteer (yes there are exceptions to every rule), and i'm sure you will have a few to argue with, but the averge driver can deal with understeer. they cant deal with oversteer.
usdefault,
Jul 27, 10:06am
Send a text message asking their mate what to do!
unbeatabull,
Jul 27, 10:06am
Ok, Can we agree that in both examples there are cases where it can cause crashes regardless of whether fitted to front or rear!
So, on the other side of that, is that you will get better tyre life out of keeping the best tyres rotated on the front as the fronts wear faster on the vast majority of cars . I know there are exceptions and as I said before on a car that wears the rears faster I'd rotate best tyres to rear.
End of the day though, if all tyres are above the min tread, it really comes down to the driver not driving within limits, or not being competent enough.
mr40cal,
Jul 27, 10:10am
Most of the time I encountered it I was in 4wd car with relatively similar tread depth all round - I my experience the understeed was caused by the road conditions, and or driving too quickly.Having more or less tread on the front or the rear would have had nil effect on the outcome - alot of understeer is caused by too much vehicle speed causing the front to wash out and not respond to steering input - if you can you could brake in the direction the the vehicle is travelling, with the steering wheel pointing in the same direction, and try to wash off some speed before steering harshly again - this is very dependant on the road surface, and with road tyres on black ice there isn't really dick you can do
NZTools,
Jul 27, 10:12am
One could argue that the average driver wouldnt even be aware of their vehicles limits, which realisticly makes (what a lot of us knew anyway) half the drivers on the road incompetent.
scuba,
Jul 27, 10:52am
+1 interesting how many "experts" are thinking up extreme examples to justify their reasons for fitting new tyres to front or rear.
most factory training I've seen suggests fitting new tyres to the rear for the reason you said- understeer is the lesser of the two evils. safety first no more no less. That doesn't mean don't rotate tyres when necessary . Most tyre shops fit the new tyres to the front becausegenerally that's where the owner is more likely to notice the difference in traction and handling and also braking and traction on the front argument. Fitting older tyres to the frontalso means they wear down the oldertyres and get rid of them instead of running thru 3 sets of fronts for every set of rears. full time 4wds tend to wear them out set at a time anyway.
chebry,
Jul 27, 11:12am
I run my best tyres on the front on both my cars one is old and RWD the other is FWD with passive inertia induced RWsteering oversteer either powered or lift off induced is easy to control and I like steering traction because if you cant steer you crash in any emergency situation steering will save you
richardmayes,
Jul 27, 11:13am
I was told you should put new tyres of the back, especially of a FWD car.
Reason being that most cars driven normally will wear the front tyres faster than the rears (because the fronts provide more than half of the cornering forces, almost all of the braking forces,and if it's a FWD they have to deliver all the power too. )
So if you always put the new tyres on the front, the rear tyres will grow very old, because they only wear slowly on the rear, and very old tyres can be worse than tyres that are getting down a bit on tread.
thewomble1,
Jul 27, 12:43pm
Swap tyres around so thebest tyres areon the front axle.
mrfxit,
Jul 27, 8:05pm
Theres been several good points made here . (always presuming 1 or 2 ppl in vehicle SEDAN/ no trailers/ excess weight in boot etc)
Excessive speed & slippery road conditions create understeer & oversteer regardless of tyre condition as long as they are warrentable (MMmmmm, interesting thought .YES!)
Personally, I have discovered a few things over the years that have made me sit up & take notice.
General driving . Q: Will crappy front tyres have better traction then good back tyres A: About even to better because forward momentum under braking, transfers approx 70% of the cars weight to the front wheels making the front brakes & tyres do approx 80% of the braking effort.
Heres the catch, The tyres traction break point is far lower on crappy tyres then on good tyres. So until you get to the lower traction break point, old front/ good rear is fine.
Q: if I am prone to excessive speeding AND heavy braking (as per road conditions) is it better to have good tyres on the front or back. A: far better to have better tyres on the front to allow a higher traction break point & let the back swing a little. IF I ever see you heading my way on a slide, I expect you to at least have the decency to be able to steer your POS away from my direction
miss-shortae,
Jul 27, 8:11pm
. with this discussion, id just buy 4 new tyres. saves all hassles and gives you piece of mind knowing you wont have to worry about the tyres for a wee while.
mrfxit,
Jul 27, 8:33pm
Think again about weight transfers .
A FWD vehicle has the 'diff/gearbox AND motor' sitting over the front wheels. This creates an instant understeer situation (think about what the original Mini's were like)
A RWD vehicle has the diff at the back/ gearbox in the middle & the motor in the front, meaning that ONLY the engine sits over the front wheels.
In particular with RWD engine transplants, if you sit the motor too far forward, you get a progressive amount of more understeer per kg over the front. In FWD transplants, that increase is MASSIVE per kg over the front
The most important weight transfers happen under braking & HEAVY turning. correct! If you are braking heavily, then the last thing you need, is to loose traction on your front wheels. correct!
If you are turning heavily in to a corner & starting to loose traction, then theres 2 things you need to consider . 1: WHY were you going too fast for that corner 2: do you want to slid head first or tail first
To me, I much prefer tail first, if the tail is sliding, then I stand a reasonable chance of steering a little & if I stomp on the brakes (because all is lost & no chance of stopping in time before ! bang) then I will know that the front tyres that are NOT sliding & are steering a little, will have MORE traction then whats already sliding.
Traction = grip = stopping power
What have you got with understeer, Do you have traction Do you have steering Do you have braking
Watch a few rallys & take note of what happens when a car can't get front wheel traction verses rear wheel traction.
mrfxit,
Jul 27, 8:36pm
Ideal but some ppl simply can't afford to replace a pair of warrantable tyres just because 2 of the set were not. Other ppl simply hate waste & want their $$$ worth out of their investment
splinter67,
Jul 27, 8:38pm
In other words for all you thick people out there in cyber land if you cant steer because you have too much traction you will go splat against something the same applys when your front wheels are locked up because they have no grip they wont steer
splinter67,
Jul 27, 8:41pm
Who was talking about tractors not a really good example apart from you anyone else on here tows a 12 ton trailer on grass
mrfxit,
Jul 27, 8:45pm
Example of how weight transfers happen.
A stiff chassis of a set weight with no suspension & good tyres Under heavy braking, the front slides easy Add suspension & the front dips allowing the back to lift a little transferring weight to the front which compress's the front tyres allowing them to spread out further & laying more rubber on the road
mrfxit,
Jul 27, 8:47pm
LOL .HUH! Please rephrase ;-)
splinter67,
Jul 27, 8:56pm
Im thinking of buying a tow truck so all you fellas put your new tyres on the back and you will make me rich towing your cars away from where you have crashed and NZ tools you are almost right I think it more like three Quarters of Drivers in NZ don't Know the car or there own capabilities
splinter67,
Jul 27, 9:01pm
which bit would you like me to rephrase some of the answers are classic and obvious that some people on here read a lot but actualy no sweet F all about real world driving
bashfulbro,
Jul 27, 9:15pm
Yes. right.
skyblue17,
Jul 27, 9:23pm
+1. Always.
whqqsh,
Jul 27, 10:42pm
+2 . & cant believe some of the 'logic' on here.
johnf_456,
Jul 27, 11:05pm
Thats why you rotate the tyres often
unbeatabull,
Jul 27, 11:07pm
How technical do we want to get!
I full agree with the tyres being put on the front etc as above.
But theres more to weight transfer being more weight on front = more front grip.
Every car, and particularly, tyre, has its limit where the force of the weight going towards the front exceeds the grip the tyre can deliver. If under heavy braking, heavy load, suspension too soft etc you get too much weight transfer to the front, you will sledge and get understeer as well. More reason to have good tyres on the front.
Also, those who have been involved with racing, would know that any weight in front of the front axle is bad - creates understeer. Any weight behind the front axle and in front of the centre point of the car creates oversteer. Same at the rear, any weight behind the rear axle creates oversteer, anything in front of the rear axle and behind the centre point is understeer. Obviously theres a lot more to it then that, but that is the basics.
As far as your average car on the road - if all tyres are above min tread and aren't 100 years old and as hard as rock, it really comes down to driver incompetence regardless of what tyre is where. I still believe best tyres should be on the front due to wet weather as this is when the tread depth actually has any bearing on the grip, if ya read my post up a bit about wet weather and those with a trailer/load on the back I explain it a little better.
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