Mechanics Please I have a Q about my FTO

Hi Iv hit buy now on the multimeter thanks for the tip. Iv always wanted one of them :) The car has had a at least 3 hundred bucks (maybe 500) worth of fuel at $50 a time put in it since the end of Jan, its only been sitting a week this time and has half a tank in it as I live rural I put the $50 in it in Marton on the way home.
Nmber plate CFP924 I do have a property listing up

Did you ever fit gullforce 10 or what ever fuel in to the car?
also i assume you never drive with a empty tank and fill some fuel when it did stall due to no fuel?

Im logic and reason brained and have a mentally high IQ not that that means anything but I have inadvertently 'designed' improvements to race bike/mototrcycles by suggesting the builder try this instead of that :) I can suggest better ways to do things and like to start a diagnostic on vehicles with the basic possibilities that will be the easiest and cheapest to remedy before going for worst case scenario, I can fix an issue with a vehicle by having someone skilled telling me what to do on the other end of the phone at 2 am in the middle of nowhere LOL

Great stuff sharon.
I am off to work now. If you get the time today it would be great if you could check for the fuel pump (electric motor) noise and any movement on the rev counter. Then I can advise further this afternoon/evening.

I will look up your engine tonight and see if I can grab a wiring diagram and fuse locations etc, depending on what you find.

If possible I am keen to keep all communication via this thread as the information may help someone else down the track, plus we can call on Mitsubishi experts etc if we get stuck, and they can see where we are up to. So long as the trolls keep away anyhow, but so far so good on that front.

I always keep the fuel at half full or above

Thanks I'll photograph the fuses today and see if I can get a mate up for a visit to help with the second person jobs. Good stuff about keeping this here, it might help some other stranded chick in the future :)
I have 2 cars so not desperate time wise but I long drive the FTO between bouts of using the tow wagon its way more fun :) so its just a gut yearning to speed this process up LOL I'll be patient

sharon.nz upload immages of your engine with engine cover on and off and check if you have the diagnostic plug i asked about.
There is a reason for looking if the rpm needle moves or not when you crank it, its part of the diagnostic map in ones head , i will post you a video to whatch and then after that you have to learn basic electronics and how to use the multimeter you now own correctly
knowing how it works and how to use it and knowing where its limmits are is a must learn thing , You are going on a crash course of elecronics now , i had to find out my self what is rubbish and whats professional so i made a highway to get on the fast lane of diagnostics for you to get on to .
We dont post these links here as all you get is arguments and people clogging the highway up its for the 2%ers only whom want to get up to sepped .
another analogy, i dont have to say that no more now and in the future ? right ?

This is how you must start learning you dont need to become a electronics scintist but basic understanding is a must and its called
. -
. OHMS LAW MATTERS. -
.
a true statment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYS9kdS56l8

This is for anyone who wants to get on the highway and No you dont start with a ferarri on this highway with no speed limmits, you get to drive with a mini. then making your mini faster and learn how to drive it fast , overtaking them ferarri drivers.
ps: i am still in the minni driving well behind other faster mini drivers and try not to crash and burn my self.
and i think the jaz is also in one of them minis on this highway.

I agree with intrade above, since you were wanting a multimeter anyway and seem to have an interest in these things, learning ohm's law and some basic diagnostic theory would be a great idea. There are loads of great resources out there as he has pointed out.

In the meantime, for expediency I will keep following the diagnostic flowchart in my head for you to keep things moving along. You are welcome to ask questions along the way though and because it's all written down if you decide to learn some more later you can look back at it and see why we have done what we have done.

For what it's worth, here is a super brief overview of what I am doing.

Non starts are generally caused by one of the following:
* Fuel
* Ignition
* Compression
* Timing

Because of your limited tools/experience I am working on my best compromise between being systematic and choosing the easy tests first.

Listening for the fuel pump is to give us some direction in the fuel department. A removed pump fuse or blown pump are very likely suspects given the age of the vehicle and your circumstances.

Looking for the rpm needle moving on cranking gives us a clue as to whether the computer is receiving and processing information from the crank and cam sensors. These are also very likely suspects if the problem is ignition related, especially given the erratic RPM needle recently. If the computer doesn't have a cam or crank signal it doesn't know when to fire the spark plugs or inject fuel, so it just stops trying.

There are loads of other possibilities too, it's a bit like the old "pick a path" books. No point in getting too far ahead of ourselves until we have the results of those first tests, because there are many paths we could potentially take depending on the results. There are also multiple ways of going about testing things, I think intrade is heading towards checking for fault codes which is another good clue as to where the fault may be.

BTW. you should likely be able to hear the pump even without a friend to turn the ignition on. You should have enough time to flick it on and then stick your head back there quickly, or you may even hear it running from the drivers seat. You could also lift up/remove the seat base if you can't hear it which will make a big difference to the volume. If you can't here it we will likely need to access under the seat anyway. I think I read somewhere those FTO's have a couple of tabs you pull at the front of the seat base to release it. If you can't figure it out ask and I will look it up.

Don't go to too much trouble on the fuses until you have tried listening for the pump. If it doesn't run we can check the fuses from there.

Hope this hasn't confused matters for you!

On a lot of cars the Rev counter will not move at all until it's running. So not a very accurate guide with possibility of leading someone astray

Absolutely, that's why unless I know the car or have researched it, I back up what I am seeing with at least one other test for confirmation. It's great to point stuff like this out, as I am human and miss stuff all the time. The catch though is my posts are already so long I have to limit what I point out to the OP as I go, in this case I was aware of the issue, next time I may not.

So good on you for bringing it up.

BTW. if this was me testing it in person with limited equipment. bridging the terminals for an error code, testing spark, listening for fuel pump and introducing an alternative fuel source are my primary rough and ready "go to's" for basic direction. In this case I am trying to avoid spark testing and alternative fuel sources for safety reasons if at all possible. I am also a little nervous about the pin bridging for checking the codes, but would be good to get it done.

Depending on the outcome of the tests the Op is about to do, I am hoping to try and lean on multimeter based testing of sensors/wiring integrity/fuses/pump etc as it's fairly easy/safe and we get a quantifiable number that we can discuss here. That's why I was keen on getting a cheap meter on the way, even if it's just to confirm a final diagnosis of a fuel pump or some such, they cost next to nothing so may as well IMO.

Intrade has posted that excellent FTO specific "how to" link on getting the codes, so I too was hoping the Op might be able to check those as well. Was hoping we could talk her through it a bit if necessary to make sure she is confident and knows what she is doing with that one when the time comes. Just don't want to overload her with too much at once.

I guess we should have a think if there are any other "2 person" tests that would be good while her friend is there. I was hoping to do those in a logical progression as required depending on what direction things take.

Hopefully she might be able to get those codes and the fuel pump noise test done before her friend arrives then we can steer it from there. Jump in if you have any ideas, I love no starts but you will have done hundreds more than me!

Simplest tests are to listen for the fuel pump, squeeze a rubber fuel hose to feel for an increase in fuel pressure when someone turns the key on, pull a plug and check for spark and to see if it's got unburnt fuel on it.
These things are all quick and simple to do and will generally lead us straight to the cause of no start.

WOW funny how the usual lot all fall over to give advice to a female &40 threads at that . usually get smart ass remarks like buy a toyota or dump it .

Hi there, ok For a start elect70 LOL Im no ordinary female so just erase that she's a woman and you lot are jumping nonsense. I have had an email from one of you, the clever one that realised I have a property listing LOL so heres what Iv just sent back to him. I had a mate up this morning and there is no sound in the back when the key is turned on or if the key is turned over. but am I deaf and is my mate? He's gone now so will try that again with another mate.The rev counter doesnt even flicker. and Im 99% sure it always moved when I turned the key prior to this issue. The lights and heater etc work, Engine turns over strongly I forgot to mention it got a new battery in January.
I did find a wire off from God knows where so have photographed it. That may be something to do with the car alarm is it? Its fed back to that fuse thats screwed to the firewall. We had to disconnect the alarm when I bought it because it had a fault and I didnt have the beeper thing that turns it off. All the fuses look like they are there but I didnt pull any out (now that I stop to think about it) to see if any are broken. The one for the ABS brakes is missing, would that matter?

As I was aware that the rev counter was being erratic would it be wise to replace the bit that was being dodgy and causing that first seeing as there was already something breaking down in that? My ex has FTO's but obviously I cant ask him because he's got the hate on going LOL but he said the rev counters can play up for ages like that going up and down or not going up at all before the part eventually stops working and would imobilise the car which may have happened coincidently if it wasnt him that sabotaged it. I am keen to learn, I am somewhat mechanical as I had a passion for this as a teen and young adult and its served me well.
Still waiting on the multi meter

I have changed my profile pic on here to the pic of the wire thats off

and pulling a spark plug is easy IF anything on that engine looked like a spark plug

The other thing is, the ex went up in behind the dash with a camera on a light thingy via the back of the glove compartment a month ago to see if there was some relay or something to do with the computer (that he said to make it sound legit) as a reason for going in there. I asked him afterwards if he'd put in a GPS tracker or taken one out seeing hes been running multiple girlfriends, (the arse) so he could keep track of where I was in relation to where he was with the newest victim.

which is why I asked in the first place if there is likely to be anything like that up in behind the dash . or was that just another lie with a hidden agenda

Its a 1996 FTO GR, that link was for a 95 but I;ll go see if I can find the relative material for mine

but that was an interesting read because Im pretty sure the bit they describe as being under the steering wheel in the 95 model is the bit he said he was looking for. so maybe the one on the 96 is tucked up in some extremely hard to get at place like under the dash board to make it the most difficult job for anyone to contemplate doing without a camera on a flexi stem with a light and a whole lot of precision tools. NOT.

oh and he went up in behind the dash on the Passenger side

Hi sharon,

Has your multimeter arrived yet?

Given there is no sound from the fuel pump that would definitely be my first port of call. The rev counter may or may not go on crank but you definitely need the fuel pump to run and pressurise the system for it to start, therefore I would leave any other potential causes of the fault for the moment.

So, with that in mind, we want to check the pump, fuse and relay. The fuel pump is a very definite suspect given the age/milage.

If your meter hasn't arrived yet and you want to do a couple of quick easy tests today, this is what I would do.

1. Look up which fuse is the fuel pump fuse and visually check it for a break (a google online should reveal something if there isn't a diagram on the fuse box cover).

2. Turn the key to the "on position" (last position before it cranks). Then lean under the car and give the fuel tank a solid hit with your fist, or even a careful hit with a block of wood. (you don't want to crack it obviously).

The theory there being that the brushes in the fuel pump are worn and making poor contact. This is the very likely cause of fuel pump failure at that age/milage. What happens is the pump stops on the weakest contact and then can't start again. With a good bump though they will often start to spin again, and you will here the buzz.

Otherwise, hang in until your meter arrives and then it is super easy as you can just start with checking voltage at the pump and then work your way back. I can give you detailed instructions on each step as you need.

In the meantime, if you have a big hat pin, or a fairly big sewing needle or two hunt those out. They are often really handy to push in the back of connectors to then get a multimeter reading from. The idea is to take the reading with the connector plugged in, as a reading straight from a disconnected connector can be misleading, it's also easy to spread the pins that way and actually cause a problem if you are not careful.

You could also remove the back seat base in the meantime as well, as that would be a great place to start your checks. (a case could be made for starting with the fuse too, if you have trouble removing the seat base we can go with that instead).

Hope that helps.