Well, that's where others have the opportunity to politely offer a better solution, then it's a learning experience for everyone. But please remember there is a difference between trolling through peoples posts deliberately looking for something to criticise and sharing better ways of doing things for the genuine purpose of helping.
What I suspect happens a lot on here is that some members can't be bothered sharing information because there is a faction that feels the need to nit pick and turn things in to a pissing contest.
There is no need for it to be that way, we ALL lose out.
Even if someone is an absolute newbie they may well have something to share, even if it's sharing something that they found super handy that most people on here already know. It still counts because not only does it help other newbies, but it's easy for the experienced people to forget what was useful when starting out and not share it as a result.
mechnificent,
Feb 20, 6:08am
Yes Jazz I'm one of the helpers.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 20, 6:12am
Not saying you are not, sorry that wasn't meant as a criticism directed at yourself (but see now it could have come across that way) but a general statement to everyone. It just happened to be your post that prompted it!
mechnificent,
Feb 20, 6:14am
No worries Jazz. I agree with your post.
mechnificent,
Feb 20, 6:16am
Thanks for clarifying anyway.
differentthings,
Feb 20, 6:43am
OK. This is the problem that my wife had today. Went to leave work and battery was dead flat. No lights left on etc. Had some jumper leads in the car but no one knew how to use them. Even after a phone call to me she could not under stand that the black went to neg etc. Luckily there's a bus depot across the road and a mechanic jump started it for her. Told her that the battery was probably stuffed. When she got home I noticed that the brake lights were always on. There's a plastic bung that goes between the pedal and the switch that got brittle and fell off. Replaced that and all is sweet. Nothing like you problem intade.
kazbanz,
Feb 20, 8:54am
must be one of those days.A trade in from yesterday had a pretty bad oil leak.basicly looked like the contents of the engine were on the engine. about 2.0l of degreaser later and hello --rocker cover bolts were all finger tight AND worse Oil filter also was barely finger tight. tightened up the bolts and the filter and gosh no more leaks
matarautrader,
Feb 20, 9:16am
Can't believe my eyes! No Euro - Jappa bashing. No-one putting down some one else. Just good old basic advice, better than just value for money as its priceless info from many years of experience. This is what the TMMB is all about. Long may it continue!
mechnificent,
Feb 20, 9:19am
Dont blink.
mrfxit,
Feb 21, 6:01am
LMFAO, the most modern vehicle I have ever personally owned is 1995, diesel & NO computer . anything.
mrfxit,
Feb 21, 6:03am
Brother brought a 1952 Humber 10 that appeared to have a knocking engine bearing. Changed the crank pulley & the knock was fixed.
elect70,
Feb 22, 12:01am
Whatever happened to all the old Blackhawk? type . diagnosis machines that used to be in every decent garage . they all seem to have dissapeared& now they all have laptops . . those things were good told mech what was wrong rather than just replacing parts until it came right , but i guess they aernt any good on modern EFI .
bigfatmat1,
Feb 22, 12:21am
IMO Can is easy to diagnose with a multimeter. a lot easier and quicker than testing all those wires if the vehicle didn't have a can system. Just check the resistance at each end. Because the way its designed a 120 ohm resistor at each control unit check resistance at each control unit should be around 60 ohm. if below 60 ohm make sure there is no short circuit between CAN_H and CAN_L wiring or there are not more than two terminating resistors or the control unit has faulty transceivers. if greater than 60 ohms make sure there are no open circuits in CAN_H or CAN_L wiring make sure your system has two terminating resistors and that they are 120 O each. These tests can be done in a few mins. So much easier than testing 100+ wires that the can does away with. Also makes the vehicle easier to work on as wiring looms are more compact. Also as far as advance diagnostics of the system we only need to probe one wire to check for a signal to or from a control unit.
mechnificent,
Feb 22, 1:52am
Lol. Good man. You make it sound easy. Haha
It's when the body controller isn't communicating with the engine or some other controller properly that the troubles start. I hate them.
I'll copy your checks up there though because that's better clearer advice than I've ever got out of any dealer I've rung to try and get some help from.
elect70,
Feb 22, 9:44pm
When I did up my old 635 BMW i got the parameters for the Bosch injection (ohmsM & it said plus or minus a value . I tested the whole lot with a simple multimeter . What sort of $ does these scopes cost & i dont believe the BS about not relying on ohms as the whole bloody system is reliant on ohms values . . ___ Those Allen testers were dam good & at$600 a steal & would diagnose most faults except ECU s
franc123,
Feb 22, 10:07pm
Pity that information isn't much use in itself without knowing the DLC pin designations and what controllers use which BUS network, which varies between vehicles, as indeed does the amount of networks that are fitted. We don't give away ALL our secrets here in franchise land.
mechnificent,
Feb 22, 10:46pm
Yeah I worked for toyota for a while. I know what it's like. even the trained technicians aren't really sure how things work often, can't reason, and just have to follow the whole flow chart. and then do what the book says and "try a known good unit", which works well if you have another car in the yard or shop to borrow the part off.
At least with the old protocols we none franchise guys could check the power and values. It's getting really tricky trying to figure if the controller is even sending the signal these days. And with multiple controllers. as you say, or I said, it's a nightmare.
bigfatmat1,
Feb 22, 11:25pm
actually you wouldn't be checking at the dlc. If you were pin out is the same it's standardized. We would be checking at controller. Can is easily identifiable without a diagram. If not you can again use a multimeter
bigfatmat1,
Feb 22, 11:28pm
use a scope and watch the lines. As I said it only 1 wire needs to be tested for signal make sure it's at idle operate device or what ever and you will see it. Once you get your head around the system you will find so very simple
mechnificent,
Feb 22, 11:39pm
Yeah but to check it's a signal to that sensor actuator or controller. we actually need to log and parse the signal out, and know what the particular sensor's address is. I can do the tests you are suggesting, and if power and signals aren't getting there that is all fine and well, I can figure out why, but if there is a signal, I need to know if it's a signal to that component. And as you know, the signal is momentary.
Until all the CAN is universalised it's a much as a muddle as the older protocols which vary between makers. We all know that just because things are obd2, it doesn't mean they use the same communication protocols or data addresses for anything except the standard emission readouts. There is noithing standardised about any of them.
mechnificent,
Feb 23, 12:03am
I'm good at diagnostics, when I started working for toyota for a year and a half the cheeky foreman was introducing me to the staff as "the new bush pig from Kaitaia". Within three months I was the highest paid toyota mechanic in NZ. Within six months toyota NZ was ringing me up from wellington asking me if they could send cars from other dealerships to me to look at because nobody else could figure the problems out of fix them. I did a lot of diagnosis and warranty work for toyota. They trusted me so much that they authorised me, if I could confirm there was a problem, to offer certain customers a new car if the problem was serious and/or not going to be curable to the customers satisfaction. They authorized and invited me to do whatever I wanted or needed, including design new parts or suggesting a design change to toyota. I don't think I used the toyota live data adaptors once. I used multimeters, and reason and logic and basic knowledge. Since then I've self taught myself how to connect computers to cars and log the data, download the rom and ram, figure which is which and which is the relevant bit for the system or component I'm looking for, how to queary specific ram addresses in much the same way you suggest using a scope for, doing repeat logs with different operating conditions.
And CAN systems still get me stumped. It keeps coming back to. "try with a known good component".
Cars really are getting to be a dealer only proposition in a lot of instances, which is fine, until the dealership can't be bothered doing the diagnosis and starts taking guesses and trying parts. and we know where that ends up.
Throw away cars.
bigfatmat1,
Feb 23, 3:17am
All though intrade will disagree sometimes you just need to replace an item to eliminate it. Because no amount of tests can 100% determine a failure of some components. Especially if the problem is intermittent and only faults once week or such when all the variables can be recreated exactly. Also sometimes if you have the part handy it may be quicker to swap it out with another item for the sake of 5 mins as opposed to hours of testing. Sure maybe nothing will be learnt but sometimes we are working to time constraints, a budget or a massive workload.
mechnificent,
Jun 2, 9:53am
And then we have to get the new controller to be accepted huh. Not for the local garage. So we can't really even slip a new ecu in there just for a test run.
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