Left car overnight with the Toyota mechanic for the second time in last twelve months to investigate the metallic shearing sound that occurs on cold start, milliseconds after the normal ignition noise. $$$ later they cannot replicate the sound and on this occasion replaced the drive belt as a precaution. Cold start this morning, the same sound! Problem started about two years ago. Is it worn ignition split tumblers or something else? I've even recorded the sound for the mechanic who said it was a continuation of normal ignition sound. The courtesy vehicle they gave me did not make that sound. Warranty runs out in May this year.
gsimpson,
Mar 27, 12:24pm
Could it be starter motor sticking?
scruff71,
Mar 27, 12:32pm
Thanks for your response gsimpson. Would that usually be an easy problem to locate and fix?
ceebee2,
Mar 27, 2:15pm
Get a good quality audio recording (Off cell phone) and post in here may assist.
mechnificent,
Mar 27, 2:21pm
It sounds like the starter would be the most likely culprit, though if it only makes the noise twice in six months it might be hard to confirm with certinty. It's a simple job to take it out, dismantle it to check the drive clutch, called a sprag clutch, lube it all up and put it back together and in. Another thing is some cam belt slipping on a smooth idler or some idles that's a bit dry on grease and squeaks for a second till it warms and spreads the grease out. It can happen in old waterpumps and idlers. It could be a bearing in a fanbelt idler pulley. It could even be a tiny squeal from the fanbelt as some relay switches on a load while the battery is still drawing a large charge. Once the battery is back up to charge the belt can handle the load without squealing.
All of those things can make noises that are deceptively like metallic tearing/rending, and hard to find if they are intermittent and momentary.
If the cam belt is near due you could do it a bit early and have them inspect all the moving bits carefully or replace them. Before that, if they can tell which end of the motor it is coming from, they might perhaps do the starter clean and lube.
andy61,
Mar 27, 3:11pm
these Corollas dont use a cambelt.
gsimpson,
Mar 27, 4:06pm
As suggested it could also be the alternator belt. So check that first. The starter could be checked and the cost depends on how hard it is to remove and replace. Should be not too bad on Corolla.
mechnificent,
Mar 27, 4:40pm
Well they can rule the cam belt out then can't they.
mechnificent,
Mar 27, 4:43pm
To test if it's the fanbelt slipping you could try turning the headlights on before you start the car, that will put a bigger load than normal on the alternator and belt and possibly make is squeal for longer. It would help diagnose it.
Also, if you lift the bonnet and stand looking at the motor when you reach in the window to start it, you might get a better idea about which end of the motor the noise is coming from.
franc123,
Mar 27, 6:44pm
You should do a cold start with the belt, or belts removed, this will confirm pretty quick if its access or drive related or not. How long since the last oil service, what oil is in it and what filter is on it?
mechnificent,
Mar 27, 7:04pm
Yeah what Franc says too. Although if the squeal is intermittent, that won't really ever be conclusive proof it is the belt. no matter how many times you try it. If it's squealing every time you start, and then went away when you took the belts off. that would be fairly conclusive.
mechnificent,
Mar 27, 7:09pm
And for that matter, my test with the lights on isn't really conclusive. The belt might not be slipping on the alternator, even though that is usually the heaviest load after starting. It could be that the water pump is getting old and sticky and taking a bit of effort to get it to spin first thing in the mornings. They are all good diagnostic steps though. Especially the repeatability. If you can always get it to sqeal by using the lights, then you know how to test it after the repair. to verify you've fixed it rather than it just not showing itself.
snoopy221,
Mar 27, 7:38pm
the metallic shearing sound that occurs on cold start, milliseconds after the normal ignition noise
BOOm tick TICK -WHAAANG Well the old batman POW thud
Been around a bit-never really heard anything i would describe as *normal ignition noise* The sound of an engine cranking over on the starter motor before it actually fires and runs on it's own sounds more likely to me. I.E. would this *normal ignition noise* change if the battery was flat?
I've even recorded the sound for the mechanic who said it was a continuation of normal ignition sound.
Get a good quality audio recording (Off cell phone) and post in here may assist.
Quote
ceebee2 8:15 am, Fri 27 Mar #4
snoopy221,
Mar 27, 7:43pm
the metallic shearing sound that occurs on cold start, milliseconds after the normal ignition noise
milliseconds we can understand-without hearing. Now if the **the metallic shearing sound **
that occurs on cold start, milliseconds after
Has a start timeframe What is it's end timeframe?
Cold start this morning, the same sound! Problem started about two years ago.
Low mileage? Last oil change and oil filter two years ago?
Noise only when cold-not started four a period of hours?
scruff71,
Mar 28, 9:49pm
Gosh, thanks everyone! This sound has been occurring EVERY day since it started two years ago. The Toyota Service dept has checked it twice and failed to isolate the problem; once with the car overnight.
I returned to the Toyota branch after they "replaced the drive belt as a precaution" as the noise had not stopped. Another mechanic listened several times to my recording of the sound and suggested I lubricate the ignition cylinder (gsimpson starter. sticking) and if that doesn't fix it said to return the car this week for them to run tests on "pre-ignition and the earthing points".
Now snoopy221, to answer your questions - end time frame of cold start. Mileage 79,000, serviced every year under warranty and the daily noise only occurs during ignition phase.
Interestingly, first lube of key cylinder yesterday- NO NOISE this morning. Can't wait to try again tomorrow.
gazzat22,
Mar 28, 10:00pm
I would suspect the ignition switch holding the starter motor in too long .I,ve seen it before ,vehicle started OK but starter motor wasnt disengaging.Turned out to be the ignition switch.Good Luck!
scruff71,
Apr 6, 7:09pm
Thank you gazza
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