2002 ford Mondeo surging any hints at all, a older couple that I know been into ford and basically they have spent $600 and no closer apparently even worse between 80-90 kph. best info I have at moment its off to ford tomorrow and just seems that they keep replacing parts in the hope they fix it and charging in the process and because they are older people "the ford people know best".
tractor9,
Oct 9, 3:22am
Could be ignition coils.
intrade,
Oct 9, 3:59am
2002 look up what the fuel trims are with global obd2 surging is never ignition coils . so whom spent 600$ on the car to no avail?
franc123,
Oct 9, 3:59am
2 litre? I'd be very suspicious of those swirl flaps in the intake manifold, it was a known fault with those early Mk3's. If they don't open and close when they should they will surge, a vacuum leak could also obviously do it. Something simple is being overlooked.
2001 Mondeo, twice into Ford Dealer, cost approx $600 for both trips
still had a slight miss under load and a surge at 1500 to 2000 rpm they were 'unable' to find the cause
and they're real easy to pull and check
intrade,
Oct 9, 4:11am
Re 7 number 3 is clearly missing . also do you make your own story? because a miss and a surge are 2 different things
franc123,
Oct 9, 4:25am
So what's the rest of that story? Who had been servicing the car?
llortmt,
Oct 9, 4:37am
+1 I've come across the same thing, often just pushing actuator lever to move the flaps seems to stop the surging. The problem normally seems to start with a vacuum leak which stops the flaps operating, they then 'gum up'. I've cleaned them with that Seafoam stuff from BNT, but I'm not really sure how good it is and of course they really want the manifold off and cleaning properly but it has worked for me a couple of times. .
skin1235,
Oct 9, 4:42am
yes they are totally different things, and yes they were both present
the vehicle went to the dealers for servicing, as required, they had it twice looking for the reason for the surge and the miss under load, and couldn't find any reason
new plugs cured both - and obviously both times they had it the plugs were not checked, the pic is what I pulled out and replaced after it had continued to playup on the way back from the last trip to them, there was a note written in felt under the bonnet that new Platinum's were fitted at xxxxxxxx km and as it had only done 25000 km from that even I had assumed they'd be fine, the pic is obviously a lot more than 25,000 km theres nearly 2mm in the gap, the third one had nearly 3mm and half the spark peg had burnt away
skin1235,
Oct 9, 4:46am
number 3 was running fine according to the oscilloscope readings, ( according to Ford) could not believe how bad the plug was when I removed it though and put the miss under load to that one obviously
franc123,
Oct 9, 4:59am
That's obviously what they assumed too. Whoever stated that the plugs were changed a mere 25k earlier was telling porkies, that's well over 100k wear there, probably have never been changed. The scope firing voltages would have had to have been through the roof, it takes serious kV's to fire a plug that worn.
skin1235,
Oct 9, 5:06am
who knows franc, when I got it the note under the bonnet was only about 5000 km old, perhaps the old owner didn't appreciated paying upward of $60 per plug as they were back then, and then sell the car,maybe he refitted the old ones the day before he sold it - which was approx 130,000 km, like you I suspect they were originals, they may have been out of the engine for a very short time but as platinum plugs go those ones had done 100k plus
skin1235,
Oct 9, 5:08am
and for the last 20,000 that I had it it ran very well - then it developed the miss under load, went to town maybe 5 times like that ( so 500km ) and thats what they looked like when I finally pulled them
according to the dealer ( Ford Motors ) the scope figures were not remarkable and certainly did not indicate the amount of wear on that No.3
edit again - coil over plug - not sure how you'd set up a scope to read all 4, after my time in the trade ( coilovers ) and don't have a scope at home but recall the scope sensor was connected in series from the main coil to dizzy lead - primary voltages wouldn't alter enough to indicate an overworking coil would they?
fordcrzy,
Oct 9, 4:22pm
a classic case of "mechanics" going for all the fancy gear and diagnosis without checking the flaming bleeding obvious.
intrade,
Oct 9, 4:42pm
if you cant see a problem with a scope on number 3 then you got a scope whom is not having a good enough sample rate you would clearly see different burn time on a plug like that with a 3500$ picoscope i had such a case on a toyota i usually just compair all plugs and if one dont seem like the others it gets pulled and then one of the good reading ones also to inspect. its why i spent 3500$ on a pico because it finds faults if you know what to look for.
skin1235,
Oct 9, 4:48pm
when I was in the trade coilovers were unheard of, how do you hook a scope to coilover engines to show the individual plug signatures?
intrade,
Oct 9, 4:54pm
coil on plug secoundary pickup probe . its a lot harder to do and i dont have the probe my self you could also make your own but the scope has to be having good scope not some one hung low product. here is how coil on plug is tested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPvSKqeQXy0
intrade,
Oct 9, 5:16pm
we should make a new thread because this one is not relating to post 1 at all now
franc123,
Oct 9, 6:43pm
Absolutely right, the flaming bleeding obvious is the assumption that the owner/operator is an ignorant tight-fisted moron who hasn't serviced the car correctly and is now seeking your help to erase years of neglect as cheaply as possible, and you may have had misleading information put in front of you such as lies about when components were last changed. Mondeos of that era can be especially bad, the 20k service intervals are a green light for people to think well if it will go that far between services then why do it at all?
xs1100,
Oct 10, 2:14am
cheers guys,car back at ford today apparently and told the spark plugs they replaced last time were faulty LOL
jmma,
Oct 10, 2:17am
Yeah right, Tui anyone (o:
franc123,
Oct 10, 2:28am
And has it fixed it or not? Having had a job or two come back on me for exactly that reason its not impossible.
xs1100,
Oct 11, 2:54am
don't know yet haven't heard franc but my thing is even if it did its on supplier to reclaim expense thru supplier. or is this double dipping both customer and supplier and yes I ve been in automotive related for 30 yrs and seen both sides
intrade,
Feb 25, 8:28pm
it wont be fixed with a spark plug dont worry tui adds are not real.
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