looking for a car in this price range that is still good to drive, narrowed it down to 2 of my all time favorite cars of the 90s can owners please comment on ownership experiences and and real world fuel economy figures (economy is a factor but not a HUGE factor) either of these 2 have to be better then my old LS1 Commodore (14-to 16L per 100 around town) another option is also a MK3 GTI 16V 5spd manual, looking to hear your thoughts and opinions on these motors, 50/50 town/ open road driving town on weekdays open road on weekends, not interested in anti Euro bullshit my mind is made up, both cars will likely be auto apart from the MK3 GTI but with 2 shot knees i am a little hesitant to live with a manual long term.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 4, 2:39am
I really like the MK3 GTI, and it's probably my preference over the VR6, mostly due to handling etc and I really like that 2.0 Motor. Also potentially easier to find in manual.
However. unless there is some really important reason why you want something form the 90's (like a certain racing class etc). I would be very wary that your budget could just about get you two models newer in the VW.
I have seen Audi A3's (MK5 Golf wearing a different party dress) in 2 door form with the fantastic 3.2, Quattro 4WD and DSG go for as cheap as 6K.
For what you are doing, that is what I would personally be buying. Quicker, safer, better on gas (than the VR6 anyway) and even though it's a more sophisticated vehicle, it's potentially more reliable as it's quite a bit newer and VW have much better diagnostics on the later gear.
My 2C.
Can't comment on the BMW, probably great but I don't know enough about them.
BTW. VR6 (90's one) is quite thirsty, but the MK3 2.0 GTI is very good on gas in my experience. The later 3.2 is very economical for an engine putting out 185KW, but this will vary with how it's driven of course.
w202merc,
Feb 4, 2:54am
Thanks, what is the clutch like on the MK3 GTI? easy enough to operate with a stiff knee? the reason why i am interested in those cars as i still have the ability to work on most things my self if anything needs doing, im not really keen on a turbo charger or DSG in that price range.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 4, 3:05am
I think the clutch was very nice, the gear change was certainly sublime, but it's been over a decade since I have owned/drive one so can't remember for sure just how heavy it was.
The later model 3.2 is not turbo charged, and honestly, if you have a crook knee that's even more reason to go for the DSG. You will absolutely fall in love with that transmission on a track, it was far better than anything you could get even in a half a million dollar super car when it came out.
Also, realistically the later one is no harder to work on than the early one. VW have an enormous amount of documentation available, there is a huge online community that create step by step guides, loads of aftermarket suppliers. Best of all though, for $400 you can have a FULL VW dealer grade diagnostics setup, with free updates for life that will still be worth several hundred if and when you sell it. This makes working on and diagnosing them an absolute breeze.
Remember I do all the work on these with a very modest set of tools in my driveway, and I make sandwiches for a living. That includes transmission services, 4WD services etc.
Yes, it's a different mindset, yes you will have to learn a few new tricks, but none of it's hard, there is loads of support and the rewards are great. It also means you stay "current" and won't be perpetually tied to only working on vehicles that are only going to become older.
I would be more than happy to give you the support you need to get started with one of these.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 4, 3:08am
BTW. the DSG service is a real walk in the park, far easier than a regular auto. About the only thing that ever goes wrong with them is the valve body and that is also a very quick/easy DIY replacement job with the transmission still in situe.
sw20,
Feb 4, 5:44am
If the 530i is anything like the E38 735i, it will have the fuel consumption of the 4.4 litre V8 model, without the performance. I prefer the shape of the E38 over the E39, and with those you either get a 728i and get reasonable fuel economy and the same level of trim as it's big brother, or you get the 740i for the V8 and performance.
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 6:32am
I own both a Golf VR6 and an E39 530i Motorsport currently.
They couldn't be more different. The better car is the E39 530i however, as far as built quality, refinement, comfort etc.
But in saying that the Golf proved the other day that it can rival an LS1 Holden from about 0-100k without any issue, which was surprising, since the Golf is only a 2.8L 6cyl with a rated 128kw.
I replaced the timing chain, guides tensioners last week as one of the guides cracked causing the chain to Jump, thankfully it did no damage to the engine.
Handling wise the Golf VR6 handles fine, despite having a weight distribution of 64/36, old road tests show that it was still one of the better handling cars of the time, in the USA the VR6 was a VR6 GTI.
But like any car of this age, it will need its fair share of mechanical attention. The E39's are also getting old, its best to replace the entire cooling system upon purchase as cheap insurance against failure.
poppy62,
Feb 4, 6:35am
Both nice cars, VR6 hard on tyres and brakes from what I can recall, BMW 530 is it the V8 or the 6 you're thinking about? BTW with the W202 merc moniker I'm surprised you're not considering the extremely excellent 300E Merc, probably the best of anything with 4 doors.
poppy62,
Feb 4, 6:37am
It's just a tarted up Camry.
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 6:38am
If you want a proper drivers car ignore this
pericles1,
Feb 4, 6:43am
He obviously doesn't want a drivers car if he's considering a 530i
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 6:54am
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1125-197.htm There's the proof that it DOESN'T Go better. You obviously had a poor example of a 530i, but I agree about the cooling system being useless, however the same goes for pretty much all EU cars due to the requirement to use recycled plastics to make those parts. My 530i handles rather well and all the leading world motoring magazines agree, the 5 Series has been a class leading car for many years.
Factory geared with a useless automatic gearbox , and factory diff ratio, maybe so, but in its current form it only has 280ps (276hp) and most likely a speed limiter around 180-190km.
gearbox 4 speed automatic top gear ratio 0.71 final drive ratio 3.77
The OP wanted to know about a Golf VR6 and the BMW 530i, so probably isn't that interested anyway :)
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 7:30am
Sorry, back on topic. Fuel Economy. The BMW Averages 10.8L/100k for my commute to work, (I do 80ks a day, 1/2 of it is Motorway). The Golf on the same commute averages 10.5L/100k.
The Golf is more "peppy" due to being around 1200kg. Overall the BMW is more powerful, once its moving.
Both cars have good safety ratings. Ie Top of the list here for the BMW:
unsurprisingly these rate well for the age compared to similar aged japanese cars.
whqqsh,
Feb 4, 7:55am
Wifes got a Mk 3 VR6, 2 door, manual. she loves it
w202merc,
Feb 4, 9:13am
Thank you for your advice you are one of the few posters worth listening to on this MB, is your VR6 auto or manual?
w202merc,
Feb 4, 9:15am
agreed, the Jap fan boy has clearly never driven a decent 5 series, i have on the other hand and i "get it" and i really like them a drivers car is what i am after but i also am wondering if its worth going for the 530i? does the 540i use much more fuel? basically is it worth going for the V8 (yes i know they have recirc ball steering over the rack and pinion over the 530i) so no doubt the 530i would be a sharper drive, but i like my V8's and the 240kw sounds pretty appealing to me.
w202merc,
Feb 4, 9:17am
thanks but im not really into "blowing the doors off something" my factory V8 Commodore had more power then that and if i was after something in that price range with high fuel consumption i would personally have an SS Commodore.
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 9:27am
(from researching)
6x 2003 520i average 11.6L/100kms over 100,000kms (one of them appears to be a 2004 E60 though, and there are no other facelift 520is on there, excpet 2003)
30x facelift 525i average 10.9L/100kms over 350,000kms 43x facelift 530i average 10.1L/100kms over 920,000kms 32x facelift 540i average 12.2L/100kms over 442,000kms
So that suggests the 530i is the better allrounder, considering likely lower running costs, though if you like power, the 540i isn't going to kill you (unless the timing chain fails!) The 98 + Models are known to have issues with this when the KM's are up a bit. (540i) but they are a nice drive.
I would have got a 540i myself, but I wanted the facelift model with motorsport bodykit, the 540i's seem to command a higher price for this spec than the 530i's did (at least when I was buying one).
The Golf VR6 is an automatic (only 4 speed however) and it sits about 2500rpm at 100k.
vtecnet,
Feb 4, 9:39am
yeah, autobox is really rubbish, its only lasted 18 years and 200,000k so far. in the current VR6.
But to be fair they are known to be a weak point.
None have been an issue on the 3x VR6 automatics I've owned.
But what was an issue was. leaking heater core, plastic cooling system parts leaking etc.
Timing chain guides breaking etc. ABS ECU needed repair.
rbd,
Feb 4, 6:18pm
Interesting comments about the 530i being boring to drive. They are one of the best drives out there, not sure what the poster was expecting. I had a 2000 E39 528i then went to a E61 530i. The E39 is a tighter drive really, better quality interior and better made car.
Remember in the E39 only the 6 cylinder cars have rack and pinion. The V8's are heavier and not quite as good at handling.
Don't be afraid of the E39 cooling system. Make a shopping list of parts needed, buy them from local parts specialist and do them all at once with new coolant. BMW parts are not expensive if bought in the right place. Upper heater hose (weeping) for mine sourced locally by specialist was only $60. Also do the oil separation system as those hoses fail due to German laws requiring use of recycled plastic.
rbd,
Feb 4, 6:20pm
Friends VR6 auto went kaput just after purchse. Only $3500 later all good. Two years later oil-coolant cooler failed and completely lunched gearbox again. Sounds like a weak point to me ;-)
serf407,
Feb 4, 7:25pm
Could always get a hand operated clutch for a manual VW golf. Not sure about the reliability of the clutch pedal activator but it would be easier to get to than pulling a zf 5hp30 steptronic in the bmw apart. http://abiliquip.com/handclutch
It's well known these cars exceed the 276hp they list and are around 330hp in standard trim, nevermind the fact that the 2JZGTE can handle 900hp without opening the motor. They also have a very low coefficient drag which makes them go very well at high speed. Useless 4 speed autobox? The A340E has been proven to take 380rwkw reliably in standard trim. I've driven plenty of E39 5 series from 520i to 523i to 528i to 530i to 540i motorsports and they are OK but in terms of reliability they fail majorly. But that's ok you guys stick to being dreamers in ya beemers. Also to say that you would want an Auzzy built SS commodore with horrible build quality just shows me that you're the perfect match for a 5 series BMW.
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