hey dont think ill c my evo2 again but am lookin at building an engine a 4g64 block with 100mm stroke gana go 2.2l coz of the high rev and torque you get but wana know more info on this possibly someones done one! things like evo gearboxes, do they bolt up etc any help or ideas would be appreciated
bendean,
Feb 6, 9:18am
yes, no anybody
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 9:26am
hang on - how are you going to make a 4G64 smaller in capacity! 4G64 stroke is already 100mm.
bendean,
Feb 6, 9:43am
a destroker kit duno wat the stroke is actually 90mm then i think
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 9:45am
waste of time.
bendean,
Feb 6, 9:46am
y is this
franc123,
Feb 6, 9:53am
Umm isn't the 4G64 already a 2.4L!It was used in some L300's and Magnas IIRC.They're not a revvy engine and aren't especially powerful and weren't really intended to be, being a long stroker they tend to produce more torque at lower revs, noth higher.I'm sure if MMC had thought it had more potential they would have used it instead of the 4G63 for hotting up!
bendean,
Feb 6, 9:55am
well it is done and you can destroke them to 2.1l or 2.2l for higher rpm and torque its quite common place hence y im on here to get a we bit more info on it
franc123,
Feb 6, 9:58am
Trust me you aren't going to get more peak torque by destroking it!I'd like to see that proven on a dyno lol, you will get less torque and it will peak further up the rev range, thats all.It sounds like more of a BR myth than anything else.
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:00am
will look into it but have been talking to uthaz hu have built these engines for that gain and it seems to be
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:05am
how many revs do you intend on pulling! If you want revs, go for a 4G63. It's not worth the hassle of buying the custom made piston and rod combo to de-stroke a 4G64. A 4G64 will still hold together to 7000rpm, just the piston speed is equivalent to a 4G63 at 7500-8000rpm. If you have most your torque down low or through the mid-range, why do you need to rev beyond 7000rpm!
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:17am
oh okay ive seen numbers and talked to people hu have built these engines and they rekon its the way to go and i can get a block crank and new je pistons and eagle rods for just over the price of a set of rods and pistons for a 4g63 aparantly they are good for 9500rpm
franc123,
Feb 6, 10:18am
PW's post about sums it up.Unless "uthaz" can back their theory with dyno figures to prove the benefits of destroking such an engine and that it gives a road engine an advantage over either leaving it alone or simply just using the 4G63 in there I'd say they are talking through their fart cannons.Quite happy to be proved wrong.
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:19am
What are you trying to achieve here! You don't need to pull 9500rpm unless you are going for silly numbers like 800hp+. The Sirius family of engines just aren't meant to be revved that high without major money spent on them - if you want revs go buy a Honda and be done with it. At 9000rpm+ you'll be needing to rebuild the engine frequently.
Again, why do you *need* to pull 9500rpm!
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:23am
no matter which combination you do, you'll either end up with an undersquare bore to stroke ratio or a unfavourable rod to stroke ratio - it's only just going to be a 'compromise' at best. If you want an engine which is going to rev out to 8000rpm+ reliably, start with an engine which was designed to do it to begin with.
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:24am
thats what i have been told they are good for and yes i would be looking at about 800hp it aint gana be a daily i just feel like building something ridiculously powerfull and i will hunt out some dyno figures for ya franc123 seeing as theres so many yes and nos towards it im curious too
carkitter,
Feb 6, 10:24am
I would be looking to improving the flow of air through the engine ie: throttle body, plenum chamber, porting and polishing the head, valve sizes, cam profiles and exhaust manifold port length tuning first before spending big $$$ on modifying a bottom end for little or no gain.
Have you taken into account the gearing of the vehicle combined with the revs where you want to make power! My old VTEC Integra was low geared to compensate for the VTEC's inherent low torque characteristics and it still pulled 100km/h at 8000rpm in 2nd. That leaves 3 gears still to go with nowhere in NZ to use them bar race circuits. My '86 Sigma GSR with massively tall gearing pulled 100km/h at 6000rpm in 2nd and had a potential top speed of 250km/h (given enough hp/boost).
What I'm getting at is that building a high rev engine for the street is a one-way ticket to disqualified drivers licence land.
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:25am
I have a PDF document somewhere which goes into full depth of using a 4G64 crank in a 4G63 block VS. a destroked 4G64 VS. a stock crank 4G63 which I'll have to dig up in the morning. It's about 50+ pages long and has alot of info, much of it which even I don't fully understand so I doubt you would either, given that you even had to ask this question in the first place.
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:29am
yea sure is, would like to get into track etc but really just wana build a really powerful and good looking car, yes to show off of course and thats another thing wich gearboxes fit im guessing ur evo ones would then i have options gsr and evos are differently geared slightly but what to use i dont know entirely hence why im on here asking
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:33am
Seems like a giant waste of money to just pull a high hp figure at huge rpms where the rest of the rev range would be unresponsive. Is this for drag racing or circuit racing! If for circuit racing I can tell you having peak power at over 9000rpms would be absolutely pointless.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding so blunt here, but from the sounds of it you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, and I suggest you keep your dream to just that - a dream.
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:34am
cum on mate dont need to get arrogant about it ive had my fare share of 4g63 engines and in that time hav learnt alot about them and would like to try sumin different im sorry i put up a thread to find out more, wot was i thinking!
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 10:36am
It sounds like you don't even know what you want - you want a de-stroked 2.2 because some other person has done it, but are you going to be using your engine the same way they are going to be! If it's just to be done up for the sake of being done up like you said it is supposedly to be, then you are just better off saving your money and sticking to a tried and proven formula. The 4G64 crank in a 4G63 block would be much more beneficial, you would actually get some usable power at the expense of not being able to rev up to 9500rpm and further inflate your penis.
carkitter,
Feb 6, 10:37am
At 9500rpm a Sigma GSR would be doing approx 150km/h in 2nd with standard gearing. If you had 400hp - 500hp or more it might work for drag racing but hard to see that being useful for circuit racing.
bendean,
Feb 6, 10:41am
yea as i said would like to get into track but just want to build a powerful car at the mo and cool phillip didnt know bowt the 4g64 crank into 4g63 thank you for that hardly see what it has to do with the size of my penis as i said i put this thread up for help and ideas but seem to get people that know there s**t but are wankers about it.
carkitter,
Feb 6, 10:52am
Most engines except for Honda's tend to have lots of potential left in the top end - cylinder head and breathing - so that's the place to start for more power. Mucking around with bore and stroke sizes, compression ratios, etc tends to change the characteristics of an engine a lot and you need to be an experienced engine builder to get it right. High rpm requires extra work into things like balancing components, high-strength low-weight materials, effective lubrication and cooling and really opens up a minefield that'll suck up your budget pretty fast.
I'd take phillip.weston's advice, he knows his stuff.
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