First car for around-town - Japanese or Euro?

I'm looking for a first car - a small, economical 4 door, auto, 13000cc+, used cars for around $9-$10K and am stuck. Do I go Japanese (Toyota, Mazda, Suzuki etc) - economical and go forever! Or Euro (Audi, Peugeot, VW) - same price for the same type of cars but the Euros are so much better quality, with a few more bells & whistles. People have said that you can get Used Euros serviced anywhere so them being a LOT more expensive than Japanese cars to get fixed is a fallacy. Quality of cars for same year/price etc seem much better - at a similar price to Japanese cars. This is a first car that will not be going on big road trips, just for around town. Thoughts!

its a fallacy euro costs much more to service, ie oil/filter changes, brake pads etc. Parts CAN be more expencive if damaged, ie crash.

Its also a fallacy that euro are so much better quality and have more bells and whistles as you seem to think.

Im surprised someone on here has not sent you a link to a Punto. Im sure they will :)

Have a look at all the old cars that are on the road daily. How many of those are European cars! Personally, I like simple, reliable cars that are easy and cheap to maintain. Therefore, I prefer Japanese cars. But, at the end of the day, it's each to their own.

Well said, keep it simple stupid (kiss) as they say. The more a car has the more it has to break and cost you in the pocket.

hmmm. by that logic I could also say "take a look at all the cars stacked up in your local wreckers yard. how many of those are Japanese cars"

small, economical but 13000cc+.

Good advice. KISS.
Oops - I meant 1300cc!

IT is a fallacy that some people think it's a fallacy that European cars are no more expensive than Japanese cars to maintain.

European cars ARE more expensive to maintain.

IF you doubt me, go along to a VW or Audi dealer and ask for a quote to do a standard 100,000km service - ie, cambelt, waterpump, engine oil and transmission oil change, radiator fluid change, sparkplug change, plus replacement engine oil filter, fuel filter, and air filter.
Then, go along to a Toyota, Mitsubishi, or Suzuki dealer, and ask for the same quote, based on a similar model.

I will guarantee that the European car is horrendously more expensive to maintain.
I guarantee it.

You will see.

One of the boys at High School had a 1965 VW Beetle as his first car. It was a bit of a bomb. until you looked at the Series 1 RX7 that one of the other boys had as a first car!

Somehow I doubt a conversation about generalizations is going to lead you to a specific make and model car for you to buy.

OP : Do what Kaz suggested.

Your best value for that purpose in that price range is generally the good old 2001 or newer Fiat Punto with the CVT Gearbox.
The great news is that you only need to spend around 6-7K for an absolutely top condition low km one and its going to be a better car than the Japanese equivilents in the price range.
Its also going to cost you no more to service as parts are cheap and easily available. Its going to use considerably less fuel and have quite a bit more go than anything 1300cc and Japanese with an auto.
How is this possible!
Well the Fiat uses a CVT transmission that is much much better suited to a small car than the 4 speed auto's found in Japanese cars. Its just like going from riding a 3 speed Raleigh 20 to a 24 speed road bike, when you don't have a lot of engine HP you need as many gears as possible. In the case of teh CVT you have infinite gearing so the car can maintain the perfect amount of revs to do the job, be that job maximum economy or maximum power.

The Fiat is also MUCH nicer to drive, no revving and roaring as it wheezes up big hills. Also because the torque converter can lock up almost immediatly the car uses heaps less fuel.

I can get nearly 5l/100km on a trip and find its really hard to do worse than 6.5l/100km around town, and thats driving with a heavy foot.

The other thing that makes these cars economical is they use features like electric power steering which means less power/economy lost to driving a power steering pump.

Feature wise they have a 4 1/2 star NCAP rating and 4-6 airbags, they have lots of nice bits like a factory sub-woofer, weight adjustment for the power steering, tiptronic mode etc etc.

They are galvanised so rust is no problem what so ever. Maintenance is cheap and easy and they have long 20'000km/12 month maintenance intervals.

There are no foreign scary bits to catch you out with big expensive bills either. They are excellent reliability wise despite having a decent amount of safety and features.

You are going to lose very little to depreciation over time as well so with the low maintenance, low purchase price and low fuel consumption it costs very little to own one.

Don't be put off by any "wives tales" about CVT transmissions, Fiat invented the first production CVT's for cars 30 years ago and have an excellent record for reliability. The same can't however be said for the likes of Honda's units where they tried to short cut and not use a transmission filter etc which means their CVT's are notoriously unreliable.

All you have to do to make sure you have reliability from the transmission is make sure it is serviced correctly with the correct fluid every 40'000km. When buying one if you can't be certain its had the transmission serviced on time every time then buy one with say 50-60K or less on the clock and service it straight away.

Be VERY wary of slick dealers telling you stories to sell their over priced and under featured Japanese equivalents. The only weapon of persuasion they have is wives tales about foreign brands (unless they have one on the lot) there is basically no money in importing and selling Punto's so that flavours the industry.

If you want first hand pricing on parts and servicing call Dino Enterprises or Italian Auto Centre. They both import Fiat parts and do servicing and can tell you what you pay for brake pads, timing belt service etc.

I am not a dealer, I do not have a Punto for sale but I have owned/worked on/driven many both for myself and as staff cars for my business. They are by far the best value cheap small automatic cars in NZ

BTW, don't feel you have to spend your whole budget the sweet spot value wise is 6-7K for a top example, despite the price they are a considerably better car than a Suzuki Automatic (and some other popular choices) for twice the price.

The only down point with the Fiat is it is a cheaper car (competes against the Suzuki etc not against the Audi) so if you want something more luxurious come back for advice.

There was two wreckers yards in Upper Hutt around the corner from me. One specialised in Volvo, VW, and Audi. He went broke a couple of years ago. His yard was always full of late model cars by the way. There is still another one who does French cars, he's still in business, again, most cars are late model.

if your getting a 1300cc car, dont get an auto

saying one models cvt is better than another is an empty point afaic . when you have such a little car - manuals are needed

In Christchurch the dealer for those are the same. You are mad going to the stealership for any car out of warranty.

They will rip you a new one no matter what you get done. My mate had a $3k+ bill for just taking an engine out of an Altezza and putting it back in. They didn't even work on it!

+1 Its a rip, its not just European cars either many "main dealers" are just rip offs.
They are just playing on people thinking they need to take their car to a specialist garage in order to get it fixed/serviced properly. The good news is that in most cases you don't. If you do need a specialist job done then there are usually excellent third party specialists (like Dino and Italian Autos for the Fiat for example) that can sell you genuine parts cheap and have all the factory gear and experience yet charge small garage rates.

The main thing is to do a little bit of research and use boards like these to get the low down on where is good in your area to get your particular car serviced.

I have to agree with jazz there, nissan, ford, mazda, all services from the dealer tend to be expencive, same as euro dealers.

Cheers nice to know I am not the only one who noticed.

I think because there is such a pre-conceived notion in NZ that anything European is expensive to deal with people just see the dealer rip off's as evidence for that to be true.

Sort of a self for-filling prophecy if you will.

BTW, original poster, not all European cars are cheap to service/maintain just like not all Japanese cars are cheap to service/maintain. Cars are cars they are all different. Assumptions and generalizations will usually get you in trouble, best to stick with specifics. Also, be wary of those in the motor trade that like to talk about generalizations with regard to service/maintenance its a sure sign they don't have a clue.

In case anyone points it out, I do use some generalisations with regard to Japanese cars. Like when I was refering to "Small Japanese Automatic Cars" Thats a bit different as there are relatively small number of models in that age group and price range. They all either have automatics transmissions with not enough gears or CVT's that are suspect with regard to longevity.

Thats a bit different to someone referring to "European cars" which of course covers a massive range of cars from different continents, manufacturers and type from Ferrari's to people movers to shopping baskets.

Sounds like you want to buy my auction :P

Ayone that thinks a 10yo punto is an investment needs their head read.

Servicing costs beigh high on both jap/euro by the dealers is the only thing I agree on jazz with. I think euro is no more or less reliable, but parts for euro ARE more expencive and harder to find due to the lack of euro here.

Here I drive jap due to the avalibility of parts and knowledge to fix a jap car, in europe id drive european, in america id drive a US made car, in cuba Id drive a 1956 chevy bel air with a carbed 4 cylinder czech engine.

You clearly have not owned a Fiat or are incapable of using a phone book and telephone. Parts couldn't be easier or cheaper. NZ is really well set up for Fiat parts, we have several third party importers of genuine parts as well as the main importers.
Each stock a monumental amount of parts, also Fiat being Fiat are big on using the latest technology but they also don't do change for changes sake. That means that I can even easily get all the regular service items for my Fiat camper which is 35 years old and the only one in the country. Simply because almost all mechanical parts are common to several other models.

I KNOW because I have owned literally dozens of Fiats in NZ.

Bugger that! I don't want to use a damn phone book or a telephone to get parts. I want to drive to Repco and get anything I want for my Jap car. Oh, and those Puntos, only genuine filters fit, no Ryco alternatives (or so I'm told by its owner).

as opposed to how many importers of jap parts! I'll stick with the masses thanks.

What a load of bollocks.
Recently I tried Repco (all 4 in our area) for some wheel cylenders for a Toyota Hilux, I also tried the two BNT branches. After being told they were in stock several times and spending all morning running around town I gave up and ordered them in.
Its much easier to just phone the experts, tell them what you want and it arrives overnight.
If you really want local the likes of BNT and Repco do stock brake shoes, filters etc for Puntos just as they do Japanese makes. Making a big fuss about parts is just absurd, how often do you even order them!
In all my many many many KM's driving Punto's it would be very unusual for me to order parts unless the 20'000km service interval had rolled around.

All this stuff is just in your head. Own one for a few years and then come back and comment.

Man alive jazz! your posts are long. Can you give me a link to a real cheap euro up in auckland!

Wow, Repco has always had everything in stock I wanted, except heavy duty springs for a Hilux and any parts for a Ford Escort. How often do I need parts for my car! Twice a year, but my garage carries these in stock anyway, so no need to use the phone.