Classic question.

bella-boo, Mar 15, 3:25am
'71 Mercury cougar - BTW I have to see my mechanic tomorrow about something else, so I will ask him aswell.

Problem - Need tyre
Tried - to drive to tyre shop, but no start

So, now heres where it gets tricky.

Solution 1 - smoking soleniod replaced with modern heavy duty one
Solution 2 - soleniod to starter lead hot and melted - replaced with heavy duty one
Solution 3 - starter motor tested, faulty, replaced with new one
Solution 4 - battery leads replaced for good measure

Meanwhile, I forgot I took the airfilter off to be able to reach for removing negative battery lead, maybe two days before I remembered.

So, now in theory it should go, but doesnt.
Solution 5 - drain sight glass below carb incase of water (easier than removing whole carb - I thought)
Also, put battery on charge, as by now it was a little run down.Should probably say battery is only about 4 months old, and a truck battery.

Any ideas then why I still cant start it, and the carb caught on fire briefly, so I stopped trying things.Thanks in advance.
40wav, Mar 15, 3:32am
My immediate thought is perhaps plug leads on wrong plugs! You obviously have spark if you have fire, but it shouldn't be getting back through the carb, so is there an inlet valve open at the same time as a spark.
lookoutas, Mar 15, 3:49am
What engine!
Cleveland! Then it could be a broken roll pin on the dizzy drive.
bella-boo, Mar 15, 3:57am
Yeah it's a 351C, hadnt thought of the pin.I didnt touch the plugs or change firing order, and I had taken it out the day before tyre run for it's weekly run and no worries at all.Although the dizzy had been set very advanced due to carb needing an overhaul at some stage in the future - and that was the only way to get it to run sweet in the meantime.Thanks for the ideas so far.
bella-boo, Mar 15, 3:59am
Also flex plate will be taken out next week to be replaced, as it was worn enough to warant replacement, but not so worn that I thought I would bugger new starter to drive it to mechanic.
extrayda, Mar 15, 4:00am
did it run fine prior to this. is the block earthed properly. any changes before these issues!
extrayda, Mar 15, 4:02am
back the timing off a bit would be the first thing i would try
quickstitch, Mar 15, 4:10am
yip, broken roll pin, common as in cleveland especially if you have a high volume oil pump and a heavy grade oil.
pfemstn, Mar 15, 1:54pm
earth strap from motor could be broken
bella-boo, Mar 15, 8:17pm
It was a little hard to start before this, but ran fine once going.Earth lead to motor has been replaced during this with a heavier lead, and connection to block was cleaned and given a light sand with 600grit to ensure good connection.I could try backing off the timing, but I have never had a carb catch on fire before, so I dont want to do any damage if this could cause more problems.Thanks for your ideas - hubby says I should have just rung the mechanic at the start, but I keep telling him that if I can fix the problems then it is keeping me busy, and keeping the bills to a minimum.The mechanic has decided to take the afternoon off today, so I will have to wait to talk to him on Monday.
extrayda, Mar 15, 8:59pm
Carb catching fire is usually due to timing being off (firing when it shouldn't, so ignites gas in the intake and up through the carb, usually with a bit of a bang). Did it try hard to start, or just fire occasionally!I would have thought if the pin was gone that the dizzy wouldn't turn, so you wouldn't get much happening at all! (I don't know this, just asking !).
extrayda, Mar 15, 9:00pm
Another thought - it the dizzy vacuum advance! If so, have you checked that it hasn't jammed with the advance full on! Or in fact that the vacuum advance is working at all!
extrayda, Mar 15, 9:09pm
last thought (probably).In my XA Falcon V8, I think there were two wires to the coil, one was the resitance wire (pink), the other went to the starter solenoid somehow.The pink wire was always live (when ign was on), the other wire was a +12V to give the ignition system a boost for starting the car when the starter was winding.Did your car have this prior to the solenoid change! If it did, is it still set up and working right! Note that it may not have had this, but both of my V8 XA Fords did.
sifty, Mar 15, 9:12pm
Yep, I had that issue when replacing dizzy on 71 Ford. Ran fine in the shed, but on the road under any load missed and faltered.
Removed resistive wire (replaced with straight wire) and sorted, but only after much dicking with card as assumed it was a fuel problem.
sifty, Mar 15, 9:45pm
*carb
lookoutas, Mar 15, 11:23pm
Even if the dizzy pin is snookered, it could jamb somewhere else and cause misfiring.
extrayda, Mar 15, 11:33pm
also check dizzy cap for wear (centre pin in particular), and rotor.I had the centre pin on a dizzy cap snap well short, which caused all sorts of odd problems.Is this a standard old school dizzy, or an MSD or something else!
bella-boo, Mar 16, 3:06am
I will try to get some pics tomorrow after work in the daylight.I will check the vaccuum advance while I'm there, and quadruple check all the wires are going to the right places.I've only owned the car since August, and the first thing that was replaced was the distributor, the sparkplugs and leads.Dizzy is now an electronic one, cant remember the brand, and the coil was upgraded to suit.I'm hoping that one day I will be finished with the engine repair/upgrades so that I can get to stripping it down to give it a nice paint job without the worry of 'will it start today'.LOL - I suppose I will also be abit sad on that day, as I am learning so much, it's great fun.
bella-boo, Apr 4, 5:44am
Wow - oops.Just remembered to do the obligitory follow-up.Turns out everything I did was fine, but the teeth on the gear on the camshaft that turns the dizzy were stripped.Not sure what the next step will be for my baby girl, as the labour involved (due to my lack of skill in the deeper engine department) means that it may be cheaper for me to replace the engine.hhmmmm.I got some budgets to do either way.Cest la vie.
supernova2, Apr 5, 3:40am
Changing a camshaft is not usually hard it just takes time.Not sure ona Cleveland though as not my area of expertise.If you dont have a workshop manaul get yourself one and have a read up.From what you have said so far you sound like you have a good idea of what you are doing so give it a go.there's lots of helpful people in here if you get stuck I'm sure someone would point you in the right direction.Cheers.
supernova2, Apr 5, 3:42am
Me again.I would have thought it pretty unusual to strip the dizzy gears on a camshaft.Are you sure that the "replacement:" dizzy you fitted was the right one!I think I read somewhere that there is two options and whilst they both sorta fit one aint right.
lookoutas, Apr 5, 3:38pm
Not quite a good outcome, but some of us can guess good eh. Bugger that the cam is snookered tho. Other then the cost of a cam (better cam) and some gaskets, the rest is just labour. I reckon I could tutu around and still do all that within a day. Radiator & grill out, front pulley, cover & chain, valley, rockers, pop cam followers, fuel pump and out it slips. Also need to drop the sump and get all the shrapnel out.
bella-boo, Apr 5, 11:13pm
Thanks for that guys.Yeah, I found out that the gear on the bottom of the dizzy is the hardened steel one, not just plain old boring steel - so it was too firm for the cam.Got told the lifters should be replaced at the same time.Will start another thread if I get stuck again.Thanks all.
bellky, Apr 5, 11:17pm
I agree. Just because the steel is harder shouldn't mean it strips the gears! Must have been wrong gears for cam.