Since when have we imported used vehicles from Korea!
smac,
Jul 25, 9:39pm
You could simply answer my question, or you could assume I'm having a go at you and answer my question with a question.geez man talk about paranoid.
I take it from your response there is no issue with Korean cars because we only get new cars from there and the risk is therefore lower. That about right!
666steve,
Jul 25, 9:42pm
Korea is "upwind" of Japan. Radiation has to travel right around the planet to get there.
lordv81,
Jul 25, 10:17pm
Just like DU ammunition,its safe until its semi vapourised to inhale.Once a minute particle 100 times smaller than a grain of rice enters your soft tissue,you are stuffed.You can run a gieger counter over DU and it shows up next to nothing as stuff like paint will stop the radiation as will paper.But its the damage it does to the DNA and the cancers it causes.DU is made from radioactive "waste" from nuclear powerstations.The same stuff thats blowing around Japan at the moment.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 10:33pm
THANKYOU! At least someone gets it!
lordv81,
Jul 25, 11:02pm
There was a doco that screened on TVcentral about a lone scientist in japan that was taking readings and interviewing people about Fukushima.There were kids that were having blood noses,unending colds and mouth sores,but the local govt medical teams were dismissing all these kids and parents as crazy and put it down to stress-even though they were giving them all free govt sponsered mediacl care due to the accident. In the doco the guy doing radiation checks showed levels in city streets that were classed as safe zones due to the places being a "safe distance" from Fuku that were way off the scale for safety.It was from all the cars bringing in dust from other areas and being distributed around on their tyres. I know Ill never want to buy a car imported after thye Fuku disaster.At least SBW will enjoy a few years over there breathing in all that Japan has to offer.
smac,
Jul 25, 11:06pm
SO, please excuse me if I've missed it, but:
What levels are deemed 'safe'! What levels are being recorded on used imported landing here! What levels are being recorded on new vehicles landing here!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 11:12pm
With respect, I think you are confusing the issue again.
To clarify before we continue, you CANNOT get a reading on the air filters from a geiger counter. BUT that dosn't mean anything because we are talking about damage from having these particles directly in contact with your soft tissue not from standing next to them. Now for your answers:
What levels are deemed 'safe'! A. You only need one particle in your lungs to cause problems.
What levels are being recorded on used imported landing here! A. They don't do any testing on the air filters at all as far as I am aware.
What levels are being recorded on new vehicles landing here! A. New vehicles are not really an issue at all, that's because they are not driving around in Japan with their air filters working like a giant net collecting these particles from the massive amounts of air that goes through them.
This is one of the reasons why the Korean vehicles are not an issue, the ones we get from Korea are almost all new as far as I am aware. That and as someone pointed out they are likely not affected due to prevailing wind currents.
Does that make sense and answer your questions!
smac,
Jul 25, 11:16pm
Nope.
I understand the statements that these particles can not be remotely detected. I haven't checked the science of that but for now lets assume it's correct.
SO, for this to be an issue, and if one particle is enough, then the issue must be quantifiable. There must be a benchmark for how many particles are usually in a filter, and how many are in the filters coming out of Japan now.
If not, then you're just guessing that the issue exists.
I am not suggesting you ARE just guessing. I am simply asking for the numbers.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 11:17pm
Take another look at the pictures here, you can see how individual particles make individual dots on the film.
What we are talking about is those particles dislodging from the air filter and making their way into your lungs.
Yes, they are quantifiable in a way. You could certainly count the dots on samples of air filters and get some idea. It will vary of course depending on city and depending on how many hours the car has been running for and the speed at which it has been travelling.
The trouble is, no one is really doing these tests "on mass".
There is also no real "safe level" its not an accumulative issue like an X Ray where you can be exposed to up to a certain amount and generally be O.K.
Its more like asbestos (only worse) where any amount once lodged in your lungs is a bad thing.
So, hopefully that makes some more sense now, the short answer is you can certainly come up with some numbers, but they won't help you much.
I agree some testing should be done but its not really about counting particles and ascertaining a "safe level" (because there is none, they are present and a risk or they are not present at all) its about adding more weight to the issue and showing people that yes indeed the vast majority of air filters over there do contain particles
Testing on each vehicle exported is a waste of time though as the test would likely cost as much as just removing or replacing the air filters. Onceyou have confirmed the problem is as widespread as we suspect form the results so far that should be enough to warrant the replacement of all filters.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 11:27pm
BTW, if we were talking about radiation directly emitted from vehicles, then your approach would make a lot of sense.
For that issue we certainly can obtain a "safe level" and individual testing is well worth while, works properly, is quantifiable and supposedly that is indeed being done.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 11:32pm
I possibly didn't make this clear so just to add a little to my above comments.
From the limited testing that has been done the evidence is suggesting that ALL air filters in cars anywhere in Japan that have been driving on the roads since Fukushima will contain some particles. Therefore all air filters should be replaced.
The only cars that won't be an issue are those that have been in storage since the disaster and not started/driven and new vehicles.
I am saying, lets do some more testing to add weight to the tests that have already been done and then ensure all filters are removed and replaced properly.
On an individual level, we should be replacing these filters in accordance with the above directions immediately.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 25, 11:34pm
How are we going now! Is it making sense yet! Hit me with more questions if you like, if you arn't following me then others won't be either so its a great chance to clarify things for everyone.
skyblue17,
Jul 25, 11:53pm
Could be an interesting public liability case against importers of these cars who fail to take proper precautions as you have suggested.
3tomany,
Jul 26, 12:02am
big differance between a new car only started to test and a car that has sucked in thousands of litres of air during daily use. in any case probably if you are buying a used import a proper service including replacing air filter should be done, nuclear affected or not. the japs arnt renowned for there maintanence
smac,
Jul 26, 12:11am
Some sense, but still not the right kind of sense.
You've said no systematic testing is occurring, which means what you're saying must be based on assumptions. Nothing wrong with assumptions, they're the backbone of modern science and research. But we need a path from assumptions to fact.
The assumptions above are that all the (used) filters coming in contain particles. Without testing, we don't know that.
Secondly, but perhaps more importantly, if assumption 1 proves true. it is assumed that this is not normal, and that it is more dangerous than normal. THOSE are the big leaps of faith.
There are reports that the people of Seattle have been breathing in hot particles since the event. SO where are the numbers that are showing us that the air filter issue is any more or less dangerous than simply living on the north west coast of continental US (assuming you can do that without getting shot or bombed). Where are the numbers showing that exposure to X number of hot particles increase risk of cancer by Y %.
kazbanz,
Jul 26, 1:13am
well gosh here I am sitting in Osaka with millionsof other people. I have taken the time to actually test the part concerned on several cars.given your grave concerns why are you not contacting the nz government right now!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 1:21am
Still you don't comprehend the situation, that or you do and you prefer to try and diffuse things by twisting the facts.
Your tests prove nothing, I explained right at the beginning that Geiger counters would not pick anything up. You are just making yourself look silly to anyone who has actually read the thread and understands the problem.
kazbanz,
Jul 26, 1:23am
SO CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT !
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 1:25am
No no no no no. You make is sound like people are taking wild guesses here.
Tests have been done and ALL tests on filters so far that I have read about have shown particles present. The logic and science behind it is sound. Especially as even more tests have been done on the dirt and ground throughout Japan and has shown these particles are present. You don't need to test the filters when you know the particles are in the dust, that's a very safe conclusion to draw.
What you are saying is akin to standing in the middle of the road seeing two bright lights coming towards you, hearing the roar of a big diesel engine and orange lights marking what is likely a cab only to respond.
"It could be a Truck, but we are making an assumption, I think we should continue to stand in the middle of the road until further tests are done"
The reason I am saying do more tests is that more tests done by different body's will only add to the weight of what has already been done and help to publicise the problem.
Waiting on more tests before taking action though, when we are 99.99% certain is just crazy when in the meantime people are breathing in this rubbish. Its even more absurd given how cheap and easy it is to remove these filters in the meantime.
So Yes do more test but we are already sure enough to warrant action, especially given the low cost of remedy and the potential damage from the risk.
I don't get why that is so hard to understand!
smac,
Jul 26, 1:30am
I'll wait until you finish editing before I reply.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 1:32am
Sorry, I find it hard to read and adjust big blocks of text in the little window. I have done editing now. go for gold!
smac,
Jul 26, 1:48am
Right then, nothing I have said says anything about making wild guesses. Nor is it a parallel to standing in traffic.
All I've done is ask for a very basic piece of information, which you should have readily at hand given how worked up you are.
To paraphrase:
How do we know that the used filters coming out of Japan pose any greater risk than filters from elsewhere (or any greater risk than mercury in fish, or cell phone radiation, or solar flares.)!
The issue of why people are questioning what you are saying is an entirely different one. That's called "the boy who cried wolf". We can save that for later so as not to get side tracked ;)
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 1:52am
Further links are available in the other threads on the subject. This thread was only intended as a follow up with instructions on how to deal with the filters. Alternatively you can research these things independently for yourself as I have.
The science is well proven, if you havn't followed to the point of even understanding why the air filters from Japan will be contaminated there is likely no pleasing you regardless of what information you provide.
Also I find your attempt at a veiled personal attack unfair and right out of line.
Sadly. your actions may cause some to dismiss this very real risk and wind up with cancer or some other nasty consequence.
I won't bother responding to you any more, as its getting us nowhere.
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