Registration confusion

galena1, Jul 31, 6:05am
Hi.I sold a car in March that had lapsed plates.I told the young guy who bought it that he would have to register the car, and also that the diff was gone so it wasn't legal to drive.I went to the Land Transport agency to say that we had sold the car, but because the registration had lapsed they couldn't bring up details on their computer and said there was nothing for me to do, it was all down to the buyer.
Over the following couple of months we saw the vehicle around town, still with the old plates.I rang the local police station to say what had happened and we were concerned but they said no offence had been committed (which I think they were wrong about).
Last night, a police officer rang to say that the vehicle was impounded having been driven by an unlicensed driver whom they had caught speeding, and they wanted our permission to destroy the vehicle as our names were still down as owners.I explained the whole story . but all he wanted was permission to destroy, so I gave it.Then he said the towies would be after us to pay the bill.
The guy they picked up driving the vehicle isn't the one we sold it to.We don't see why we should pay the towie's bill.Do we have any come-back here!
Also, there must have been some way for us to have advised change of ownership - did the local agency give us the wrong advice!
Thanks.
kcf, Jul 31, 6:11am
The name on the "ownership" papers is pretty much only "where the parking tickets get sent", rather than actually anything to do with ownership

If somebody has turned up, paid you money, and taken the car away if they have some sort of receipt to show that the car is now theirs, that is the true ownership trail.

I suspect you've got a policeman who isn't up to speed.Your correct reply is "I don't own the car.I sold it to xyz on 123 date".Otherwise you're bringing yourself in the firing line for tickets and bills that are not your problem.Also, potentially you're giving the police instructions to destroy an item that you don't own.

Short version:name on car licence papers does not constitute ownership
galena1, Jul 31, 6:20am
Thanks.The guy I sold it to paid in cash and all I know is his first name.Not very smart of me, eh!Lesson learned.
smac, Jul 31, 6:24am
When did it lapse! An MR13A (notice of sale, your bit of the change of ownership) can still be lodged against a lapsed vehicle, as long as it's not so old that it's not in the system (we're talking decades).
Who told you they couldn't "bring up the details"!
thejazzpianoma, Jul 31, 6:27am
Yet another case of completely inept Policing. Stand firm, don't pay anything and don't stand for any more nonsense from the Police.

That cop has knowingly committed an act of fraud and made you party to it. Let alone the previous ineptitude from them in this situation.

That officer should be booted out immediately, but of course nothing will be done.
smac, Jul 31, 6:31am
Jazz that's idiotic, even for you.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 31, 6:32am
Please explain.

Did the Cop knowingly commit fraud by taking authorisation to destroy from a person he/she knew not to be the owner!

Yes or No

Could this whole situation have been avoided if the Police had correctly advised of the correct process to follow in the beginning!

Yes or No

Were the Police correct in advising that a vehicle with lapsed registration and no WOF driving on public roads was not committing an offence!

Yes or No
galena1, Jul 31, 6:59am
The license/registration (sorry, am unclear of the correct term) lapsed in 2009.We couldn't even find a way to notifya change of address because we were "no longer in the system".Yet, the police found a way to get in touch with us, so why couldn't Land Transport dept!It all seems a little crazy.I can't even contact the new owner because I have no details of who he is/was.
It was a nice car, too.A 20 year old Subaru Legacy in good condition except that it had the rear diff taken out by the local garage to put into our current vehicle.
What a mess!
smac, Jul 31, 6:59am
Sure I'll explain, but not with your questions, as they're the wrong one's to be asking.

Basically there is a bunch more to this story than has been written up here. That's why I limited what I initially advised, and asked for more information.

Firstly, Police do not destroy vehicles just for the hell of it. If a vehicle is impounded, and then not collected after the 28 days, it's then up to the wrecker to dispose of it, not Police, and they seek costs from NZTA, Police or MoJ (there's various scenarios).

You've just seen a post from somebody who has a problem, you've seen it involved Police, and from that point you just see red.kinda funny, kinda sad.

Who knows who actually rang, who knows what they actually asked, who knows what the OP actually asked and what info he gave when he was advised there was no offence, who knows what else there is to the story. not me. Not you.
smac, Jul 31, 7:00am
Like I already asked, who did you approach to do the MR13A for you (your responsibility)!
carlz05, Jul 31, 7:02am
You're still liable for everything until ownership papers are changed.We've tried ourselves on a car we basically gave away, didn't change ownership as it needed 3 months of payment.Anyway new owner got plenty of tickets then wrote off the car.We ended up liable, haven't paid them but Justice dept has chased us along with Baycorp.Have tried to get off them, but Justice dept wont budge.
galena1, Jul 31, 7:13am
Sorry smac, I neglected to answer your question.Initially I tried to do it on-line but couldn't.So I rang the Land Transport number and was told I would have to go into the local agency to do it.Our nearest agency is run from the KiwiBank/NZPost counter at a shop.They said because the plates were lapsed (or cancelled, sorry, I cannot remember exact words now) that there was nothing for us to do regarding a change of ownership - which seemed negligent to me, but they were the ones who were supposed to know the way things are done.I was standing there with a fistful of dollars to pay the outstanding license fee (for the time between the license being last due and the plates lapsing), but they couldn't even tell me how much that was.
PS I am female.Our license lapsed because my husband had a long period of illness and this was one of the things that was over-looked.Then when he recovered he "never got around to it".
smac, Jul 31, 7:17am
Righto, contact NZTA again. They will have a record of your call, and you are entitled to get a copy of the details (as if what you say is correct, you were given the wrong information). Take that to the local coppers (in person), and stay on their case until you get to somebody far enough up the food chain to help.
galena1, Jul 31, 7:23am
Thank you, smac. I never thought about the call being recorded.
metzeler, Jul 31, 7:57am
You obviously have issues with police[understatement]would you feel better if they used VW Polos instead of holdens!I know i would be happier.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 31, 8:23am
Darn tootin!
Actually, Diesel Skoda's would make a lot of sense. Its pretty silly us footing the bill for them to run around in some of the thirstiest cars available.
gregelz, Jul 31, 10:14pm
For future when you sell a vehicle take some sort of ID from them like a drivers licence number or Passport no. or photocopy if you have the tech at home to do so and write up a plain paper reciept stating it was sold on xxx date to Mr/Mrs xxx and get them to sign it. All legal responsibility is changes to them at that point. Make sure you still fill in the change of rego card at the post shop.They are also able to go to post shop to change ownership and return to you with a little rego card stating that the registered ownership has changed into their name. Failing all that dont let the car go out the drive with the plates on it and then take them straight into the post shop and cancel the registration of the vehicle (pay any outstanding rego) and your legal responsibilty of the vehicle ends there.
phillip.weston, Aug 1, 12:51am
you should have taken the plates off it if you were selling a de-registered vehicle. They could have still got it re-registered without the number plates if they wished to do so.
elect70, Aug 1, 3:30am
Regardless of lapsed rego you still got to send change of ownershipto NZTA& or handed in the plates & it would be deregisteredthey automaticallydereg it after a yearbutyou are liable for all costsincurredby the caruntil you do .
rsr72, Aug 1, 3:53am
#19- Yes.
galena1, Aug 1, 10:13am
Thank you all for your replies and advice.I really wish I had not stuffed up.I'm still confused as to why I got such bad advice from the Land Transport agency but I can't turn the clock back.I hope I never have to sell a car again, I was out of my depth!