there is the point that if it had been fitted correctly in the first place the slave would not have been able to over extend and cause the second breakdown
that should be recognised in some way ie reimbursed
as for the future, the clutch is now lighter you believe, that could well mean he got it right on the 3rd try and you'll have no further issues
I would suspect that to be the case, but I'd be prepared to rip a new exit orifice for someone if it fell apart again
tiggles2,
Oct 28, 10:14am
Yes clutch was heavier after 1st job - 1st time - via job sheet - remove gear box - clean, strip and rebuild. Reface flywheel - install new clutch kit - reassemble - run and test 2nd job - remove slave cylinder clutch fork not sitting right. found release bearing damaged remove from carrier, fit new bearing, fit new slave cylinder test drive ok I am so going to have them on about this and yes rip a new orifice is not a problem - maybe green but I am no cabbage - and I am not to proud to ask. Thank you everyone - I understand hard to answer when you can't see what is what - clutch so much as mumbles I think the rest of NZ will hear me
tiggles2,
Oct 28, 10:18am
Pressure plate was new with kit they are not MTA members but are a limited company Am grumpy with myself now for not following my gut and arguing the point - except I did not know the point then
jmma,
Oct 28, 10:22am
The point is an extra $1.6k , Did you see any old parts or the damage in gearbox! How long time wise between both jobs! You need to talk to the Manager, but calmly and get it explained so YOU understand it.
tiggles2,
Oct 28, 10:46am
The only part he showed me from both jobs was the slave cylinder which looked clean but used and the arm that went into it which was straight and clean with the stopper thing on it that had a bit of the rubber seal that looked like it had been torn off - maybe caught and ripped - it was a new tear / rip No I did not see any other broken parts Time wise 1st job 18/09 -25/09 2nd job 23/10 - 26/10 so less than one month I understand to talk calmly yo the manager and have things explained to me - I just feel I have not been told the truth
chebry,
Oct 28, 8:09pm
So they dont guarentee their work. Thats piss poor a properly fitted clutch assembly does not give trouble in 500kms they screwed up the first time and should have rectified their mistake at their expense. The very fact that the job had to be redone shows it wasnt done correctly the first time.
skin1235,
Oct 28, 8:15pm
this post gives you your 1.6k back immediately " clutch fork not sitting right", if those words appear you have every right to have the job repaired at no expense to you - it was their stuffup refitting it the first time
skin1235,
Oct 28, 8:18pm
also I don't understand the 1.6k at all, it doesn't take that long to drop a working box, fit a new thrust and put the box back in - even if you have a huge horse box on the chassis, 4hr job max and possibly $300 in parts ( which you should never have been charged for anyway )
skin1235,
Oct 28, 8:28pm
there's been 2 or 3 scenario's as to cause posted above,any one of them could be valid, we don't have crystal balls but do have logic, I'd print this whole thread and include it with the letter you're going to present, any decent service manager should be able to discern the issue without it, but it will reinforce your attempt to right a wrong done
tiggles2,
Oct 28, 8:33pm
Hi skin1235 - about to go to work - 2nd line on invoice remove slave cylinder, clutch fork not sitting right bill made up of 487 - towing (we were stranded 12kms away from shop) 45.64 - Slave cylinder 32.20 - Release bearing 6.00 - freight 15.60 - workshop materials 720 - labour plus GST
on the 1st bill it was 487.50 towing 325 - rebuilding parts 299 - clutch kit lots of other small stuff 1822.00 labour plus gst will ring manager around lunch time and let you all know what he says :)
mechnificent,
Oct 28, 9:49pm
Get them to check the master cylinder has some clearance between the pedal and it's piston. Also get them to check that the fluid return hole is not blocked.
mechnificent,
Oct 28, 11:17pm
If the clutch had been assembled incorrectly, the fault would probably have prevented them getting the truck out of the workshop, let alone through a test drive, or the 500Ks. The problem is almost certain to be in the master cylinder. There could be too little clearance between the pedal and piston, and when it warms up the expansion causes the hydraulic fluid to expand and/or it operates like a one way pump. pushing the bearing into the clutch and the slave cylinder out. There could be a small bit of dirt that floats around in the master cylinder and occasionally blocks the return passage for the fluid, causing the same symptoms.
jmma,
Oct 28, 11:30pm
So the clearance at the pedal just adjusted itself, No don't think so, as this problem also would show fairly quickly. I'm going for they only replace clutch plate first time, seems cheap for a truck clutch kit. Then pressure plate collapsed, causing pedal to go to floor. Second time, they made up a story a put a pressure plate in, now has light pedal.and working fine. That's what my crystal ball tells me anyway (o:
mechnificent,
Oct 29, 12:35am
You are a suspicious Guy Jmma.
Your theory supposes that they are double liars and rip off artists. that they blatantly lied and ripped them off initially, then did the same thing the second time. Most mechanics aren't that bad in my experience.
chebry,
Oct 29, 1:03am
You should get out more
snoopy221,
Oct 29, 2:29am
Reality is-if the slave cylinder was the problem . The clutch would have been slipping. Now as to a release bearing failure with a brand new bearing at 500 kilometres. The workshop should be dealing with the supplier of the bearing. Or admiting incorrect instalation of the bearing causing premature wear-and . I M H O. Dislocation of the bearing from the carrier causing overtravelling of the slave cylinder and failure.
skin1235,
Oct 29, 3:00am
firstly, the first invoice, you've got just over $3100 listed
and nothing there that would require the box to be dismantled,but have $1800 labour, assume 18 hrs ish, nothing there to indicate why even 12 hrs, I've rebuilt 15 sp road rangers in less than that time
I wonder what the rebuild parts consisted of
suspect you had a broken fork or a broken selector, and while in there they replaced a few seals and washers - this also tells me we're not talking a 450hp cummins with a 600 kg 15 sp up its chuff
I'd guess a hino, about 180hp with a 9spd
second, second invoice, $720 labour for a 5 hr job!, cos thats all it takes to drop a r/r out of a kenworth, fit a new clutch and get it back on the road fgs, and all topped off with $40 per km towing, on a job you shouldn't be charged for in the first place no mention of a pressure plate in either invoice, and you wouldn't get one in a $299 clutch kit unless it was a second hand one for a hilux
skin1235,
Oct 29, 3:07am
someone mentioned cost of clutch kit, bill says $299
thats a very cheap kit, or about standard for a 12inch clutch plate alone thats on the first bill, they pulled the box, repaired a few bits, fitted lots of small stuff, and for good measure threw a new plate in but then stuffed up the fitting of the fork (mention of springs, fork not sitting right etc)
probably wasn't intentional but shouldn't be your cost to fix - personally I'd expect to get half the towing on me and the rest on them , and still wouldn't be too happy paying half the towing
tiggles2,
Oct 29, 3:44am
Have rung and asked manager for explanation as to how a slave cylinder could knock a clutch fork out of place causing damage to a new release bearing - he could not answer and has gone to investigate then get back to me - this was at 12.20 and I have not heard back yet Truck is a looked after 1984 Isuzu Forward - 5 speed - you may laugh - its a little ladies truck I had traveled from Rotorua to just outside Taupo (84 kms). The clutch had not slipped, grabbed or done anything wrong. Truck drove well. Pulled up pushing clutch in - stopped and went to go from 2nd to reverse - gear stick wobbled around in neutral but would not select and I did not ram it. I climbed under my truck and could not see any visible gear arm things bent, out of place or broken - they were movable by hand but only a few mm - could not hear any noise when moving them. No I did not know what I was looking for other than something obviously broken. There was no fluid leaks anywhere or puddles of fluid in the ground. Engine woud run with clutch in but stall if let out so gussing stuck in high gear. Called out said company Invoice 1 total is 3445.80 inc gst This is what it says word for word
Instructions - NO GEARS Action - travel to site of vehicle - equestrian center- check gear box linkage - damage in gear box - arrange vehicle recovery to workshop Remove gear box, clean, remove top and strip out selectors. remove clutch and flywheel, arrange to have flywheel refaced. Dismantle top of box to build up worn parts. Arrange roll pins. Reassemble gearbox top, drill out selector shafts and fit pins. Refit clutch, top to gear box, refit to truck run and test Transport in487.50 Repair as below325.00 Build up pivot levers X 2, machine to size, reface flywheel Ball bearing6.44 Clutch kit WCK186N 299.95 (told it was a 4 piece kit) Freight9.50 Heavy Duty Roll Pins(5) 4.00 Nyloc Nut0.25 Flat washer 1/2 inch(2)0.46 Bolt M10 x 401.23 Work shop materials39.48 Labour1,822.50
Sub Total - 2996.31 GST- 449.46 Total - 3,445.80
tiggles2,
Oct 29, 3:52am
2nd Invoice Compliant - no clutch Action travel to site of vehicle check clutch remove slave cylinder, clutch fork not sitting right arrange vehicle recovery to workshop Dissemble, remove drive shaft (hmm two chap did this before he towed it) gear linkages, speedo cable and hand brake cable. remove gear box. found release bearing damaged, remove release bearing from carrier, obtain and fit new bearing, reassemble and refit gear box, gear linkages, drive shaft, speedo cable and hand brake cable - test drive OK
Transport in487.50 C/S/CYL 1-1/8 ISU45.64 Release Bearing32.20 Freight6.00 Workshop materials15.60 Labour720.00 Sub total1306.94 Plus GST196.05 total1503.00
skin1235,
Oct 29, 4:01am
no laughter here, well not at the truck size etc, a big grin in support for a feisty one who is prepared to give it a go
$299 id a very good price for a 4 pc kit - pressure, drive plates, thrust and spigot ( so I wonder what the ball bearing at 6.44 was !)
still guessing, isuzu forward 5 sp clutch ( 2.8ltr engine!) 9 or 10 inch clutch ( 230 to 250mm) wonder why they even fitted it, the primary issue was a broken selector shaft or arm and wear on the other shafts ( the gearbox is a 5sp, my lunch box is probably bigger and harder to remove from behind the hilux seat, may at times even weigh more
tiggles2,
Oct 29, 10:05am
lol :) yes prepared to give it a go - will ring manager again tomorrow I actually love my truck - she is usually a dream to drive, has been to ChCh and the far north never missing a beat. Yes correct 5 speed (2.8 lt engine) not sure of clutch size so will ask I don't know how hard it is to remove / work on gear box, clutch etc other than there is lots of room under the truck, I keep it clean - I know female thing and well serviced. I understand parts wear out and need to be repaired / replaced butthey should last longer than a month. Thank you for your thoughts and advice - it has made me think and ask questions :)
tiggles2,
Oct 30, 10:54pm
Update - I called manager again - he tells me that because the clutch pedal stayed down (it was floppy as in no clutch) as my master cylinder had failed and caused the clutch to stay engaged and bunt the release bearing out! Hmm there is no mention of the master cylinder which is still the same and untouched. Said a lot of what was on here and still he insists that bearing burnt out because the clutch did not disengage - would not acknowledge that fork was sitting wrong even though on invoice Have left it that he will investigate more and ring me back - any other advise please - feeling a bit bullied here TIA
jmma,
Oct 30, 11:22pm
A truck load of horse shit at their front door to fill in the big hole they are digging for themselves. Or should that be bullshit. Once your clutch pedal stuck down, you were going no where, so not sure how release brg burnt out in this short time. It had to be sticking for some time and I'm sure you would have noticed a difference in the clutch pedal sooner.
tiggles2,
Oct 31, 3:05am
thank you - the clutch was working fine until I stopped went to reverse and pedal was floppy the engine ran maybe 2 minutes tops while I'll played around trying to work out what had happened. I then switched off and called for help. I have asked the passengers in the truck if they herd anything different from the engine on the way down and they both said no - sounded all as per normal.
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