So Euro cars have become more reliable have they

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-dependable-cars-20130214-2ee48.html

It seems that they are much the same as they are perceived to be

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm

6 in the 12 top 'most reliable' are not Japanese.

7 from the bottom 20 listed are ":european", bearing in mind cars are global - I counted the MINI as european although for years it had a Mexican engine, etc.

Riiiight. so everyone on here jumps in to promote Mercedes and Porsche as well as Toyota and Lexus as the ultimate cars to buy for reliability,while they shun Nissan, Kia and Hyundai as being not much better than Volvo.

Sounds truly reflective to me!

I love how people just see what they want to see.

BTW, you can buy a 2004ish Porsche Cayanne for not that much more than a Hilux. why don't you go and promote that as a good option. according to the survey its likely to be more reliable than the Toyota.

Funniest thing I thought was the Land Rover ad at the top of the page!

If I drop $120,000 on a "Flash New Euro Car" then I am going to expect and demand that everything on that car is perfect 100% of the time.If a dash bulb blows then it will be back to the dealer faster than you can say "fix it."

If i drop $20,000 on an "Everyday New Average Car" then I'm probably not going to worry too much about that same blown bulb, it can wait until the next scheduled service.

At the time each car goes in for that scheduled service the Flash car has been in once (or maybe even twice!) and the Everyday car has been in no times.

They may have had the same number of faults, or the Ordinary car may even have had more, but the survey will always show the "Unreliable" Flash car has been back to the shop more than the other one, so it's therefore garbage.

In the end, none of this matters because we all just drive what suits us.Nothing any of us say to each other or the results of any survey will convince us to change brands.

"I'd rather push my broken down old POS BMW through a swamp of nuclear waste than drive your Toyota."

"I'd rather push my broken down old POS BMW through a swamp of nuclear waste than drive your Toyota."[/quote

haha, and i would be pissing myself as i drive passed you, the rest of your post is just pointless

Lexus doesn't fit into the 'everyday' car but still is at the top of the list. Says something about their quality doesn't it.

LMAO ummm yea & what else would you expect for the PRICE

There are multiple factors at play, as I outlined in my post. The key thing is you can't distinguish anything useful from that sort of survey.

Even really good survey's like the reliability index you have to read with your head screwed on. For example they lump the new self parking sophisticated Touran in with the Old Touran. making is score badly. yet the Golf which is mechanically and electronically the same scores just fine.

Likewise, you have to remember things like the really high proportion of manual transmissions in the vehicles they survey compared to here.

Survey's are basically the same as a science experiment, you gather the data and analyse it. but unless your method is sound you can't draw a credible conclusion.

Trouble is there is always a crowd ready to lap up any junk science if it helps reinforce their opinion.

A far better list would need to be based on a narrow price range specific to a small range of years Eg: 5 year blocks

Well, clearly more than LandRover and Jaguar are offering.for the same price!

Cars should all be tested at 150000-200000 km's and see how they held together, given the same regular servicing etc. My problem with Euro's is they tend to start to get annoying faults around the 100km+ Range. Really weould have to be an absolute bargain to go Euro again. I mean like brand new car for fifty cents kind of bargain. Also find it very very hard to believe Nissan is that low. I don't think I've ever actually heard of a Nissan breaking down. Does that even exist!

The only new car I bought was anissan Bluebird, first 12 months it was in workshopevery month for faults,until the warranty run out then got rid of it .My 3 BMWsivehad1 was even owned by a boy racerall over15 years old& 200 K &exceptionallyreliable

Had our 96 Nissan Attesa for going on 8 years & only had to do a starter motor & still to do an oil leak thats been bugging us for a few years.
nothing else.
it's been very reliable but a pig to work on when there are problems

LMAO. what a funny dreamworld you live in.
All cars are mechanical and electrical and as a result you will get a percentage that can and will break down.

I have seen plenty of Nissan's fail with stretched timing chains, sludge buildup, transmission issues and so on.

Like any brand, its more to do with maintenance and type of use than anything with a little bit of chance and some design issues bringing up the rear. No manufacturer has any magical reliability dust. that's just a myth made up by used car dealers scare people into buying poor value used Japanese imports.

Problems per 100 cars doesn't tell me much. Knowing what problems occur and how much they cost to fix would be more informative. A faulty electric window which costs $50 to repair in a VW would be of lesser concern than a cracked chasis in a Nissan which writes off the car.

A faulty electric window which costs $50 to repair 

Link please!

www.pickapart.co.nz

Haha explains it all

You can also order brand new repair kits online from about $6 to $25 delivered to your door in about a week. Anyone with a little bit of common sense would know where to get those, and any decent tradie who works on VW's should know they are available. Wouldn't be surprised if they are stocked at a reasonable price at one of the NZ suppliers too (But I have never bothered to ask).

As we have discovered in many other threads, there are a group of people that like to wave their arms around and make easy cheap fix's into absurd drama's.

I hate to think how they cope with life in general if such a simple thing is so difficult for them.

With all due respect, as a trader / dealer for seventeen years dealing in pretty much everything that moved on four wheels- imports, NZ new, Euros, Euro imports, you name it. without going into the economics of why used imports are, in general, not only good value for the average consumer, but dispelled well and truly any early myths and stories from the Nineties about quality, reliability etc. the bottom line for most car dealers in the used market, is the mighty dollar.

And in the quest for the dollar, dealers will sell what makes financial sense- cas that DON'T break down, that cost minimal amounts to service, that have ease of maintenance plus affordable, easy-sourced spares, are sound financial bets. Japanese cars, by and large, irrespective on where they were first registered, meet those criteria. Yes, there are some exceptions, yes, not EVERYTHING made in the Land Of The Rising Sun will be reilable, but by God, the odds are well and truly in your favour. And that's a key reason dealers love them- you sell them, and they don't come back.

Used Euros, on the other hand, are shunned by the majority of the used industry not because we don't like them- (I, for example, have a bit of a thing for turbocharged Audis, but just because I like them, doesn't make me want to be the one writing out the cheques for one) but because the odds of failure, and an expensive one at that, are much higher. It's not fallacy, or lack of information, or enlightenment, it's just dollars and cents. We learn, as Traders, time after time after time, the hard way through experience.

Once you start being repsonsible for writing out large cheques to fix stuff, you start taking a pretty keen interest in sorting out the wheat from the chaff- all the emotion isn't worth a damn when it's your bottom line that is being eradicated. You only have to write out cheques two or three times in a row for a faulty Volkswagen or Audi DSG gearbox to realise it's not just bad luck you're $4-6,000 worse off, and at trade pricing, too.

Ask the major warranty companies why they have a Euro premium loading on their policies. It's not because they can, or want to fleece you- it's because the claim ratios per policy, and the repair costs per claim, far outweigh those of their comparable Japanese counterparts. And yes, in case you ask, I have seen those ratios.

The reliability issues within VW-Audi product during the latter part of the last decade are well known within the trade, although pretty much the last people to admit that will be those that sell them new, or used by choice, or have "I LOVE VW" sellotaped to their hats. Those to talk to are the people who have free choice on what to sell and are unfettered by brand loyalty or franchise agreements, and get to vote with their chequebooks.

JD Power and Associates surveys (the US one, anyway) are considered THE benchmark for vehicle reliability indications, at least in part due to the consistent sampling, years of data, but also the large sampling range and lack of association with any manufacturer or affiliate.

That only 2 Japanese manufacturers (Mitsy and Subaru) were outside the top-12 in the list, and a US-model list at that (many of the "Japanese" vehicles sold and surveyed in the States are in fact US designed, and US built) is an outstanding testament to the product in general.

You don't have to love Japanese cars- this is not about emotion- but about the cold hard reality of ownership costs and reliability.

Looks like the euro salesman is in denial

Where's BMC or Leyland!!