westwyn. I write the cheques for the cars I drive and I have driven Euro vehicles exclusively for some years now, including running a fleet of Fiats for my business. Yet, its exceedingly rare thing for me to pay for anything that is not just part of a regular service.
That's the point I think, mostly people only have trouble because they buy vehicles that have not been serviced and continue to neglect them. do that and its a bit like the saying "that's why we can't have nice things". This is why it makes sense for dealers for yourself to only sell low technology ox carts with as little equipment to break on them as possible.
Plenty of abused VW's from Japan too. they do some stupid things to them over there and often free VW updates/recalls/upgrades are ignored.
Just like chain driven Nissans are good because the dealer doesn't have to service before sale. what's good for the dealer is not necessarily good for the consumer.
What dealer wants to pay for transmission and engine servicing if they don't have to and then be honest with the customer about the costs of maintaining a car properly! Nah. too hard, too many lost sales and not enough margin, no dealer wants to do that. Far easier to peddle Ox Carts and tell horror stories to keep people away from the better vehicles.
I will consider changing my tune when our vehicles start having all these breakdowns and horror stories I have been hearing about all these years.
socram,
Feb 15, 6:23am
Tempting pebbles, tempting. If Lexus, Porsche, Jaguar and Mercedes are on the list, why not RR!
Name any Euro car and I'll probably know of someone who has had a trouble free run.Name any Jap car and I'll probably know of someone who hasn't.But there again, the reverse is also the case.
From one owner daily driver 1995 MGFs with no problems to Porsches needing a new engine under warranty; Mercedes with dodgy gearboxes or others with trim falling off to land Rovers with 100% reliability over 8 years of ownership, and Honda CRV's also with stuffed gearboxes; new Falcons with either electric window issues or transmission issues; Holdens with dodgy brakes; 100% reliable Skodas or knackered Toyota Surfs.Take your pick.
It is still a lottery, but just remember, these days, none of us have to grease 22 points every 750 miles, or do a decoke annually or even change the oil every 3000 miles, on any modern car.
incar.,
Feb 15, 6:45am
heck this record player surely must be worn out by now! must be a jap one
tgray,
Feb 15, 6:55am
99% of the cars I sell are Toyota, Nissan and Mazda and out of the 180-200 cars I sell per year, I get less than one call back per year regarding a problem, which is always minor. Never had a transmission or engine pack up - never. Considering these cars are 10-15 years old, that's not down to luck, but choosing brands I know are reliable. Just sold a 1994 corona today with NO FAULTS. Not bad for a 19 year old car. I simply couldn't run by business with $500 mark ups selling 15 year old Euro cars. I 100% agree with Westwyn. Unlike other posters, we are the guys that actually sell them - Whether others choose to believe it or not, we actually know something about cars. (I'm 50 this year and been around a long time).
edangus,
Feb 15, 7:34am
Lexus is a real winner in my books. Good Looks (and only getting better) Good Quality, Good Price.
carstauranga001,
Feb 15, 7:43am
My god a lot of that sounds like me writting! When's your bithday, mines 1/11. Yep five 0 as well mate.
llortmt,
Feb 15, 8:41am
& there is the root of the problem. You have no idea or experience whatsoever with respect of running, owning or servicing a modern Japanese or Australian vehicle, yet by your own admission you are happy to portray your Euro-trash as superior at every opportunity!
incar.,
Feb 15, 8:49am
And all this time I thought you were a welfare sucking leech, my pride is slightly tainted now??
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 9:14am
Don't worry I compare costs with friends regularly, especially when I was in business. I could run more than two Multipla's for the cost of running just one of a friends Toyota Van's (he was doing similar work). that's real total cost over time (depreciation, fuel, repairs, maintenance etc). My first two humble little work cars were completely fault free for the hard 75'000km we did in each of them, I sold one for over twice what I bought it for and the other for over 3 times what we originally paid. Can't beat that for work vehicles, you wouldn't find cheaper cars to run either. It was about that time I sold the last Corolla, didn't have any notable faults with either Corolla but no one really wanted to drive them and when they did we paid a real premium in fuel.
llortmt,
Feb 15, 9:52am
LOL Sorry but you dismiss everyone's opinion that differs from your own just because THEY're not stupid enough to own, drive and service one of your beloved Euros. However its ok when the boot is on the other foot because you 'compare costs with friends'. You sir are a hypocrite!
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 10:04am
Sigh. you are just twisting things to suit your agenda. I did a proper cost comparison, I don't recall anyone else doing such a thing on here let alone my dismissing their findings. You get some anecdotal nonsense from time to time and that's about it. I do tell people to go and get some real experience but that's because they have no decent reference point to go off.
edangus,
Feb 15, 10:10am
I believe its much of a much these days. Yank, Euro or Jap. More often it comes down to the person driving it & how the actually treat their vehicle.
llortmt,
Feb 15, 10:47am
No YOU are twisting things for YOUR agenda! Incar and I both service and repair all makes of vehicle, we both have experience of working on your beloved marks not just here but in Europe. However you disrespectfully and rudely dismiss our professional experience and credentials despite your possessing none. God know what you think our agenda is. I earnt well removing an Audi gearbox today in order to replace a simple heater hose with the most ridiculous plastic push fit seal. A pathetically under engineered EGR pipe had fractured and then burnt through the hose causing the vehicle to overheat. I ran it up and then discovered the water pump is now leaking. On Monday I shall remove most of the front of the vehicle to get to it. The EGR pipe had to come from Germany (and yes I tried your beloved specialists) it took two weeks. In the last year 3 out of 4 window regulators have crapped themselves and alternator failed on the same vehicle. The vehicle in question is owned by a company and has been and still is maintained regardless of expense. They have a Commodore of the same age and nothing except a headlight bulb and tailgate struts have failed despite it covering significantly more km's. It's clear I have earnt significantly more from the Audi and I think it safe to say I will continue to do so. So HOW may I ask, does it fit my agenda! I think its at this point you normally resort to disrespectful spitefully comments or the go away knuckle dragging trolls chant normally!
visak,
Feb 15, 10:51am
Cost to fix an oil leak on a rocker cover on an Toyota Qualis $135.00. Quote to fix oil leak on a BMW rocker cover that was only just repaired 30 months ago, and is leaking again, by an authorised dealer $795.00, and qoute from an independent BMW workshop $850.00. I like European cars, it's just the servicing costs that puts me off.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 10:58am
LOL, O.K I will take the bait and put my neck out.
My money says this Audi you are talking about is at least 10 years old and probably has quite a few km's on it of commercial use.
I am hearing a lot of arm flapping over some minor and relatively inexpensive fix's that won't likely have left them stranded on the side of the road.
That car could just have easily been a Toyota diesel of that age with a cracked head, steaming on the side of the road with massive expenses ahead of it.
I know which I would rather be dealing with.
I work on Audi's, VW's and Jappa's too. just because I do it as a hobby doesn't make them any different to work on.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 11:02am
I can quote silly prices for Jap cars too. like the $45 Toyota charged for a $2 model shop motor to fix a Prado central locking unit. Not only that, they expect you to cut the old unit to bits with a dremel to get to the motor and then somehow glue it all together. They didn't even supply the plastic cog for the motor shaft.
Yes you can buy a complete unit but that was hundreds of dollars.
An absolute joke.
I have also wasted entire afternoon's running all over town for these supposedly plentiful Toyota parts, simple things like wheel cylinders for a Hilux were impossible to get off the shelf from any of the several Repco's and BNT's I tried. I have rung Italian Auto's and got a set of wheel cylinders for my only one in the country 35 year old Fiat camper overnight, far easier!
Cars are cars, most makes have some good and bad design aspects, most makes are pretty good for parts in NZ (there are exceptions like Volvo). There is always an element of risk and maintenance will always help curb the risk. You may as well drive the best value, nicest car for your money IMO, because after literally dozens of European cars and hundreds of thousands of km's I am still waiting for all these horror stories to happen to me!
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 11:21am
Since we are telling stories. I know someone who bought an Alfa 156 wagon a few years ago. The guys Father was a dealer of Jap imports and his wife believed all the usual wives tales.
Anyhow they flapped their arms but he bought it anyway. He owned it for a year or so, it was a fairly tired example he bought cheap and he replaced a Maf sensor and did the timing belt, the garage made a mistake doing the belt that had to be rectified. All of this was apparently end of the world and his Wife and father did so much arm flapping he eventually gave up and sold it.
Anyhow, when it sold he got all his money back (including the cost of cambelt, MAF etc) and made $100 (not to mention a year or so's motoring).
He sold his replacement Honda wagon the other day which he also did a cambelt etc on. and lost thousands.
Yet still the wife and father flap their arms about when he considered buying something European again. so now he has been pressured in to spending as much as I did on our 2007 Grande Punto on a 2001 imported Vitz 1.0.
Glad its not me doing hundreds of km's a week in it like he is.
bmwnz,
Feb 15, 6:47pm
I know compared to some of you that my 60+ cars of personal ownership and of mixed country parentage since 1966 is a meagre sample and therefore of little value. However, in that time I have had the following failures in my cars:
flat tyres.
I have no idea why some cars are reported as inherently bad, but by following these pages for the past few years, it seems to this old fella, that the majority of reasons people bag other cars is the old "I have XXX and because I own it, it must be better than yours" syndrome, commonly found among schoolboys at primary school.
Drawing on my direct experience through this life, there are differences between marques, but for the average owner, those differences are not the reason some cars fail. In my opinion, the major reason for such failures is primarily the lack of correct maintenance, no matter the marque or country of origin and secondly the temperament of the owner. By that I mean, some people would moan and complain if (for example) the cigarette lighter failed. Others would just buy a new one and forget about it.
As always, moaners get heard more than realists.
llortmt,
Feb 15, 7:14pm
Under ten years (only just) driver was stranded and the vehicle was towed by the AA to a local garage that basically said they couldn't fix it and misdiagnosed the fault (because they couldn't see it I assume) (main dealer by the way). It was then towed to me. Oh and its done about 187k. Jaz as I said I service and repair all makes of vehicle every day I am in a far better position than you to make proper comparisons.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 15, 8:21pm
Yet still. I have no problems. I am glad you know so much better than me who actually ownes these cars, relies on them, does the work and pays the bills.
Trying to use a 10 year old commercial vehicle with coming up 200K on the clock with a few minor issues as some sort of proof is pathetic.
Especially when in other threads the Pro Jappa crowd are trying to tell us that having to muck about replacing diesel injectors and/or seals on a regular basis is acceptable!
If I wanted to make anecdotal claims like yours I would point to the absurd amount of late model Toyota diesels making their way to engine re-conditioners at low km's, yet these same engine re-conditioners are just not seeing the likes of Fiat diesels at all!
Your claims are wishy washy nonsense at best, just because you are paid to work on vehicles is no substitute for reliability tests and comprehensive cost analysis over time. In other words, no amount of chest beating is going to change the fact that my Multipla's cost less than half the cost to own and run than the Hiace's my friend was using.
But I guess there is no arguing with people who have to chest beat and pretend that somehow their authority means more than actual statistics and documented running costs to make their argument work.
austingtir,
Feb 15, 8:25pm
Jazz the answer to your question of why arent there any fiats in your mechanics getting fixed is pretty obvious.How many fiats are actually on the road in NZ compared to toyotas!
Its a ridiculous comparison and you know it.
I swear you get stupider with each and every post.
llortmt,
Feb 15, 8:30pm
No Jaz that's just ONE job in my workshop right NOW. I don't have time right now (unlike you) but I'll give you some more if you like later, i think even if we talked about the last month I'd prove my point! But your argument is fundamentally flawed because you claim that in order to be an expert likeyou, you MUST OWN these Euros, yet the same it seems is NOT true of Japanese or Australian vehicles (you can just TALK to their owners). How convenient for you.
incar.,
Feb 15, 9:17pm
trying to compare your little excuse for a life as opposed to a survey of 37,000 real vehicle owners is so lame, really proves how much of a idiot you really are, i vote to have you banned from motoring!
hpaul,
Feb 15, 9:56pm
Little harsh.
I generally like Jazz's posts, normally far more insightful, thoughtful and helpful than most on here.
The JD Power survey does seem to gotten under his skin a little.
Maybe let this thread go Jazz, it's going nowhere constructive.
incar.,
Feb 15, 10:24pm
thejazzpianoma wrote: Quattro as far as I am aware is/was such a mechanic. I work on the models in question (all servicing incl cambelts, transmission etc) and often pay for the parts myself. As an actual owner I can see thsosomeght st benefits of low depreciation and exceptionally low running and service costs.You however just have a history of making up silly nonsense and make deliberate attacks on anything not Japanese. Yet you have to come and ask how to do the most basic of operations on a VW Diesel while flailing your arms around because its not a Toyota. Its no wonder you think that cars which you struggle to understand must cost people lots of money, its likely if they take them to you for repair that they do.If you were a decent mechanic and sound minded person you would automatically have respect, and not have to run around spouting qualifications and loudly telling anyone who will listen that you are always right because you are in the trade. I suggest you ask yourself why it is that despite living in Auckland you have to advertise as available 24 hours a day in order to keep yourself as a one man band in enough work!
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