The 2.4 chain driven camrys had waterpump failures quite regularly, chain driven doesn't mean waterpumps won't leak
wellyguynz,
Apr 22, 2:25am
I do not understand why people do not do preventative maintenance its not hard ?
ladatrouble,
Apr 22, 2:29am
It didn't seem to hurt the older chain engines, and they were using a poorer quality oil 30 years ago. It's just bad design, they they are trying to blame it on something else.
motorboy2011,
Apr 22, 2:53am
modern quiet weaker thin single row chains + dirty oil.
franc123,
Apr 22, 3:19am
Cost. Its that simple, spending money on the car unless the thing is running badly or not at all, or you've just had a WOF inspector throw the book at you isn't on the radar for many. Much of it comes from the fact that most simply aren't aware of the damage they can do and what it costs to rectify until it actually happens. The message about cambelts has got through to a few, but trans, coolant and brake fluid renewals still seem to draw blank looks. We also have a generation or so who have only ever driven used imports and have never ever seen a manufacturers service schedule.
bwg11,
Apr 22, 3:32am
You are absolutely correct. How many people get their appliances, i.e. refrigerator, freezer, dryer, dishwasher etc serviced until they stop? They see their car as simply another appliance and treat it accordingly. Some cars will tolerate this treatment better than others.
2sheddies,
Apr 22, 4:04am
Yep. Like modern home appliances, the modern car seems to be increasingly viewed by many as another throwaway item. Maybe it's because of the high depreciation or even by virtue of the ever more complex and expensive technology in them, which often costs more than the vehicle is worth to repair when it eventually goes wrong. So maintenance goes by the board, and when it finally dies after a good thrashing, it's often easier, cheaper and less effort to then scrap it and get a new one and begin the process over again?
gsimpson,
Apr 22, 4:07am
The cooling fluids should be replaced at least as often as the belt so this problem would still have occured if it was a chain engine and just the coolant done. The belt wasn't relevant to the damage.
rctr,
Apr 22, 5:10am
Replacing the water pump is a maintainence item just as replacing spark plugs and oils are and these need to be done whether engine is belt driven Chain driven gear driven or pushrods.
purple666,
Apr 22, 5:25am
Pity they just don't make better water pumps, you know, like they used to. Is it because they are no longer water pumps at all but coolant pumps?
ladatrouble,
Apr 22, 6:07am
In early ohc engines the timing cover was awash with oil. Take the timing cover off the 3.6 Commodore and it's dry inside. Run them on an SE rated oil from the '70's and I don't think they could make 100,000km before the chains wore out. Sure you need to use a fancy 5/30 and change at the recommended interval. but you could run an old Laser on 20/50 and change it every couple of years and the chain would never wear out. Something has changed, and it's not the chains, not the oil, and not the servicing, it's engine design.
snoopy221,
Apr 22, 6:38am
Sheesh CLOTH- or Disposable nappies? Take ya ole 13 Miles Per Gallon chain driven firing miles away from where it should be and STEP RIGHT IN TO IT. Do Not Tell ME That petrol ain't 49 cents a gallon-and that a belt is better.
snoopy221,
Apr 22, 6:42am
Oh and. any damn DECENT meknik. Seein timin variations on a scope. Belts need replacing YES-ALBEIT-DISPOSABLE. Or are ya wringing out and rewashing ya oil filter? Most mechanics will usualy on their own engines do a filter per change- just like wipin a bum at a nappy change-tis juss what ya do.
gsimpson,
Apr 22, 9:56am
How long do you expect a pump to last? I am doing the timing belt on the FIAT this week. 2nd belt at 160k. Doing pump just in case it doesn't last until the next belt change. At $50 for pump why take the risk?
kazbanz,
Apr 22, 3:53pm
Gosh I must be sooo lucky that my ex wives Nissan sunny managed to do a total of 200000km with no pump change or chain change-sold with no mechanical issues. Or oldest sons car -94 sunny-368000km still on the original cam chain and water pump. Or the trade in Toyota funcargo -bought from us at 45000k and traded at 235000km with NO sighn of wear Or the Toyota echo trade in with 315000km Guess I must just be very very lucky hu? OR could it be that most modern jap cars actually don't wear out camshains at even 3x the time a cambelt needs to be replaced.? And that waterpump/coolant technology has improved to the point that they don't need replacing as often as they used to. Its all great and wonderfull spouting endlessly and quoting from google. real world experience though has something to be said for
richardmayes,
Apr 22, 4:13pm
I wouldn't think twice about buying a cambelt-engined car if the engine room looked a bit more like the engine room of my old Triumph - I.e. just about everything is within arm's reach and you can get a spanner onto almost anything relatively easily. If there was a modern DOHC engine under there, then a mechanic who knew what he was doing cold probably change the cambelt in about 15 minutes.
The latest generation of cars just present you with a wall of plastic covers when you open the bonnet, you wouldn't even know where to start looking for the engine.
The previous generation (1990s-2000s) cars weren't so big on plastic covers, but there's a wall of secondary plumbing and wiring filling the whole engine room instead.
I hate to think how much of the mechanic's time is required to even get NEAR the timing belt cover, let alone actually change the belt, tensioner and water pump, on a modern transverse-engined V6 with air conditioning etc etc.
321mat,
Apr 22, 6:59pm
SImple answer for all our problems: Push Rods.
tamarillo,
Apr 22, 7:26pm
Yep, there's a real nice NZ new late 2000's v6 accord at a main dealer here in Nelson that seems unable to sell. I tested it and it was perfect but company wanted four so paid a lot more for a lesser car. Most of my milage was open road and I don't think v6 would have used more than say 1litre per 100 km more. That was a year back and it's still there. Logic odd.
richardmayes,
Apr 22, 8:19pm
People are not made of money. A $1500 trip to the garage to replace a service item is something most people would need to budget for.
kazbanz,
Apr 22, 8:55pm
I can tell you that you dodged a bullet--or the company did. V6 accords seem to have the same appetite for clutch packs that the oddity does. I recently declined to trade in a fairly low miles V6 2006 accord with a "blown" tranz. I did price up repair-4500 was the lowest estimate. I genuinely feel Honda don't build tranz strong enough for the V6
melonhead1,
Apr 22, 9:55pm
Having to come up with $1500 to change a belt is a fair reason to be afraid of them. I understand that heh. It looks like we've found the answer and its a jolly fair enough answer too. Now, I hope my vq engine's chain doesn't snap :P.
Edit, oh yeah, vq's have three chains that could go wrong.
sr2,
Apr 22, 10:02pm
LOL, as long as they're not driven by fibre timing gears!
pnp,
Apr 22, 10:12pm
Having just had a chain break in my Vitara a few months back, I now chuckle when I see car ad's stating "chain driven - no cambelt to worry about! " I'd gladly have changed a cambelt if it meant I's still have my car to drive around in! the cost of cambelt is cheap maintenance every 80-100 thousand k's compared to replacing an engine!
ladatrouble,
Feb 28, 6:11am
Those motors were built last century , and a GA15/16 will probably be still running next century. I know of one with well over 400,000km on it and it never gets touched. my NX Coupe is going to the wrecker next WoF, engine is still sweet as. I'm talking about the modern crap - we shouldn't even be opening that stuff up yet.
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