My 18 year old Son has just completed a defensive driving course and scored 'Excellent' with the practical test with the instructor, so I said go for your full license. He went to Ashburton and did the full license test and got a big list of faults that left me puzzled. He is a good driver Do LTSA driver license testing people have a 'Quota' to fail a certain number of people per day? Something Sucks here! They have a monopoly what are you going to do go to another company? there is no other company we are a Law unto ourselves, Pay your money Roll the dice and take your chances?
curlcrown,
Jul 24, 9:16am
Your son failed because he wasn't good enough during the test. Do you really think that is not the case?
tibby1947,
Jul 24, 9:17am
Did your son admit to the big list of faults? If so - failed. If not - appeal.
tweake,
Jul 24, 9:43am
i think they still have the quota system. there was a stink over it, never did hear if they got rid of it.
but see what the faults where. defensive driving course doesn't cover a lot of the basic stuff normal driving instruction does.
berg,
Jul 24, 9:44am
The only 18 year old "good" drivers I've ever met have come from karting, speedway or other forms of motorsport. Sorry, I don't buy that you son is a "good" driver. He might be an "average" driver or even at a stretch slightly above average for his age but in my profession I have found "good" drivers normally have years of experience and many thousand kms behind them.
pico42,
Jul 24, 11:50am
The "quota" is not an arbitrary number of failures, it was a mechanism to help ensure consistency in testing between different testing centres.
Let's say you have ten different testing centres. 9 of these find they fail about 30% of people, but the 10th only fails 5%. It could be that the people in the area of the 10th testing centres happen to be really good drivers. But it is not as likely as the testing at the testing centre being too lenient. Solution? Tighten up on the testing and, in part, use as a guide the failure rates of other centres as what is "normal". If you are old enough, you might recall the scaling of school cert marks across the country. Very similar purpose. Add in some emotive reporting by media and voila! You have a quota just for revenue gathering that people can blame and be the victim. But of all the trade me and Facebook rants about people being unfairly failed, I don't recall one that didn't turn up after some digging that the driver had simp,y cocked up. There was one who mounted a roundabout whose mummy thought they should have still passed.
andrew147,
Jul 24, 6:00pm
Hey Berg whats your profession?
andrew147,
Jul 24, 6:16pm
Well no he never mounted any roundabouts, he did admit to one fault by failing to look over shoulder when changing lanes, he did indicate and use his mirrors though, he was 'Pinged' for driving too far to the right of the lane I taught him to put his right front tyre in the right tyre track on the road surface this still leaves at least 0.5 metre from centreline! Seems I better turn in my license after 35 years because thats where I put my front tyre, [It's an old trick I was taught at a motorcycle riding school] if you cross the centreline thats illegal except when overtaking. I take the comment on a "Good Driver" ok in my humble opinion as a motorcycle rider of 35 years [and I have seen some idiots everyday in cars including professional drivers] My Son is a 'Safe' driver leave out the good for now, Where is the specification for "Too Far To The Right"?
saxman99,
Jul 24, 6:35pm
Failing to clear your blind spot before changing lanes is a shocking omission and on a motorway could lead to a fatal accident.
tibby1947,
Jul 24, 7:07pm
Andrew - your son failed. End of it. Not a good example to show him if all you can do is winge about one of the "big list of faults" ie driving too far to right. Bite the bullet, apply to take test asap, if he makes no mistakes he will pass.
berg,
Jul 24, 8:36pm
Qualified mechanic, qualified gasfitter, many years as a truck driver and now I work on the road every day as an advisor/technical expert
berg,
Jul 24, 8:47pm
The "good" driver thing wasn't meant as a dig. I spend almost every working day on the road and get to see and interact with a fair bit of the motoring public. What depresses me the most is the driving level seems to have slipped badly with many people seeming to forget the absolute basics. I see every day, people failing to correctly indicate at roundabouts, straight lining roundabouts, failing to turn into the correct lanes, and failing to remain in lanes. All this by people who often consider themselves "good" or even "above average" drivers. Personally, I take my driving very seriously and I enjoy driving. I challenge myself daily to drive better even on roads I drive every day. Unfortunately much of NZ's motoring public doesn't enjoy the driving the same way I do so they only do it to get from A to B so they don't bother trying to improve their skills. This seems to be getting more common yet, when asked, most will say they are better drivers than most. Just my 2 cents minus tax
theo35,
Jul 24, 9:21pm
Good comments berg.
gmphil,
Jul 24, 9:29pm
doesn't road code state anymore, keep left at all times ?
mephismeltdown,
Jul 24, 9:35pm
you will find these are full licenced drivers.
budgel,
Jul 24, 9:58pm
My son, now 26 failed his first practical test at the age of 16 even after a series of professional lessons. I told him to accept it and address why he failed. A large part of his failing was nervousness preventing him from approaching the test in a relaxed but alert manner. We both knew that he had a good grasp of the rules, so we booked a couple more instructor sessions as dummy runs, and he flew through the next time he sat.
In the end I didnt want my kid driving if he wasnt up to scratch, so made him face his shortcomings and deal with them. I suggest you do the same.
Good luck for next time!
kazbanz,
Jul 24, 10:36pm
Andrew-what are the big list of faults? The first one you have mentioned is failing to look back when changing lanes. As a biker do you want him driving on the same road as you without actually looking left(right) to make sure you aren't sitting there? My honest advice would be to have a good look at the reasons he failed and sort them out.
tintop,
Jul 24, 11:05pm
Well explained - but deliberately misunderstood by many. :)
tweake,
Jul 24, 11:15pm
they are taught to keep left. if anything put left wheel in the left tire track, which is not really a good way to teach. main reason is to get away from beginner mistake of hogging the center line. they need to learn how to line up their left side. very common to see people who can't do that. when they line up a bridge or go around a car that sticking out a bit from a parking spot, they clear it by a huge amount and result is they cross the center line into oncoming traffic. plenty of people killed from that.
the other thing is so they don't get hit by people hogging the center line.
they need to be able to drive by the fog line because they will get blinded by someone at night, the need to be able to look away and drive correctly by using the fog line or even side of the road.
sorry to say but you have taught him poorly.
this actually highlights the biggest problem, young drivers being taught poorly by older drivers. lets face it we are not perfect and we are certainly not teachers.
tweake,
Jul 24, 11:23pm
correct, no problem with that at all. however i have issues with how its implemented. once they have passed their amount per month, they simply pick on the stupid little things as an excuse to fail people to make their stats fall within the curve. they know how many they have passed/failed and people will look after their own interests first. thats the problem when you have the person administering the test giving the result. its open to abuse for or against the person.
its a difficult problem to get around.
toomuch3,
Jul 25, 12:33am
Oops - i posted teh following on another thread:
I've been talking to parents recently. Seems consistent that teenage girls are all passing their drivers test first time around (unless there is a major blunder) and teenage boys are consistently all failing first time round (unless its a 100% score). Any one with any stats to support this anecdotal evidence?
curlyz53,
Oct 2, 3:09am
I can tell you first-hand that there is absolutely NO 'quota'. Testing officers never fail applicants - they just observe. Applicants fail themselves. To not pass a full licence test you must have a minimum of TWO Critical Errors or ONE Immediate Failure Error, or. a points fail (usually due to lack of mirror use and poor hazard detection). Just like any test, those that study up, usually get through.
martin11,
Oct 2, 4:34am
VTNZ took over the testing as at May this year after the old company NZDL lost the contract and a lot of the more experienced tester from NZDL did not get a job offer with them . There never was a quota system under NZDL's time testing it was all rubbish .
brapbrap8,
Oct 2, 4:37am
Big difference between a defensive driving test, a lesson with an instructor and the actual test! The defensive driving course is very, very basic compared to the other 2. I don't think that passing a defensive driving course is worth much at all.
cammey,
Oct 2, 4:39am
They certainly had a quota.
It was widely published that testers were expected to fail a certain percentage of applicants.
Its a bit like saying "set the high jump so 66% of jumpers fail" as opposed to "the bar is set at this height".
No test that is based on a standard can result in a fail rate expressed as a percentage.
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