Yesterday I took a brand new outback with the 6 cylinder and all the fruit for a few hundred km from nelson up to rainbow ski field and back. This now has a CVT and I hated it. All that power ruined with slurring and no relationship between my right foot and engine noise or power. In manual it was much better with artificial steps. For me, the cvt ruins the car. Otherwise it was incredibly smooth, quiet, refined and competent. Belted up to the top car park without chains with confidence. But on open road it under steered far too easily and steering is completely remote. It did 12 litres per 100k which isn't impressive. I didn't drive hard as had people and baby in car. Just enough pace to test it a little. Except for 4 wheel drive, and the wonderfull intelligent cruise control, I prefer my old VF Commodore sport wagon. Far more enjoyable drive. So, I still cannot like this CVT stuff! Cars owner didn't know or care it's CVT though, so each to their own.
kazbanz,
Jul 27, 12:25am
tamarillo--try doing the trip with the radio turned up or earplugs in. Not being a smartalec but a lot of peoples negatives to CVT is that it sounds wrong.
pandai,
Jul 27, 12:43am
I drove the new one with the 2.5 motor and didn't like that either. If the stereo had been better it would have swayed my decision but sadly the sounds weren't great, and the car felt slow. Tried the Forester XT and didn't love that either. Went around to the Honda dealer straight afterwards and decided a CRV was just an easier car to live with with a 'normal' gearbox and more power.
brapbrap8,
Jul 27, 2:14am
Interesting review tamarillo, the Subaru CVT has been getting great reviews from most people. I haven't driven one myself, I got a voicemail a few months ago from the local Subaru dealer inviting me to try one but I haven't yet. They use the CVT in the new WRX, I wonder how that is selling.
Personally I don't mind CVTs too much for normal driving, if you are taking it easy they are hard to beat for comfort, and give quite good fuel economy compared to a normal automatic. Tiptronic is a must on a CVT though, as they never seem to do well in more enthusiastic driving when left to their own devices.
tamarillo,
Jul 27, 4:54am
But I don't want to! And it feels wrong to me too.
tamarillo,
Jul 27, 5:01am
Brapbrab, I agree that for toddling around town and motorways it's fine, and as said many won't care or know. But I do. Also read a few reviews and often I sense a 'it's good. for a CVT'. Like used to get with Commodores! It's good. for an aussie car. I'd love to drive an 8 speeder DCT to compare. Maybe Subaru just refuse to buy in like others do and cvt are cheaper to develop and make. Can't imagine WRX with one.
gunhand,
Jul 27, 5:05am
Why would you care? are you buying one? prob not if you don't like it. Problem solved.
dinx,
Jul 27, 5:13am
DP's not convinced on CVT's yet, but does't hate it compared to a std auto, his fav car was a 6 speed manual anyhow. Tiptronic however he uses he wants to and I don't bother, but he would prefer to drive a little more agressively than me. I'm a tightwad and prefer to put a little less wear and tear on the car & tyres ($$) than essential lol on the roads that we drive that he would want to use tiptronic on.
sport_billy,
Jul 27, 9:35am
Wish they did a 6 cylinder, 6 speed manual Outback!
melonhead1,
Jul 27, 9:47am
Yes and Legacy too. Subaru have turned their back on their roots as maker of cars for the discerning driver.
tamarillo,
Jul 27, 9:56am
It is called discussion.
peja,
Jul 27, 11:49am
12 litres per 100km thats about 8.3 km/litre - that's worse than my V8 Commodore wagon on the open road! I get a shade under 10 km/litre open road depending how I drive it. If I'm gentle can get 11km per litre open road. 8.3 km/litre is not much better than I get out of the Commy around town. And I know what I'd prefer to drive.
CVT is OK for small economy cars. Partners Toyota Vitz has it, economical and smooth, but I couldnt describe it as a car I'd drive for pleasure. As you say, it is best suited for people who dont really care, just need to get from A>B, in other words driving appliances.
tamarillo,
Jul 27, 9:00pm
I agree, I had a v8 Calais wagon, with cylinder cut off, and could get that easily. I was surprised, though it is brand spanking.
elect70,
Jul 28, 1:18am
Its not fitted for comfort or buyer preference ,its all about meeting minimum Eu fuel consumption standards ( without going to hybrid ). Manuals will soon be extinct & conventional autos not far behind . If you want a drivers car then need to go back to the last decade
richardmayes,
Jul 28, 1:31am
Interesting, I've only driven small CVTs and they seem to make a pretty happy marriage with small revvy dohc engines.
Subaru wagons look like they've grown a lot bigger and heavier than they used to be, are you sure the cvt was the main problem. ?
richardmayes,
Jul 28, 1:34am
Some of us LIKE talking cars just because. !?
brapbrap8,
Jul 28, 2:28am
The Outback is 191kw and 350NM so it has reasonable power for its size. I saw one this morning and they don't look any bigger than the older models to me. Not sure what the weight difference is.
gunhand,
Jul 28, 4:31am
and as said many won't care or know. But I do. tamarillo 5:01 pm, Sun 26 Jul #6.
It was this line that made me comment. Why care if ya not buying one? And if ya buying one and don't like it buy one that you do. Nothing menacing meant by me lol. Fair enough not liking it but sounded like you were taking it personally almost.
stevo2,
Jul 28, 4:51am
Mrs Stevo just bought a new car with a CVT transmission and it suits her down to the ground. In fact as she doesn't even know what a CVT is, she said "The transmission on the new car is a lot smoother than my old Mazda Axela" Now I have driven it for a couple of hundred clicks and it goes just fine as long as you are happy to run with the flow of the traffic. I had the cruise control set to 100kph going up the Kaimais (just to see if it could hold its speed) and it did it real easy but the tacho was showing up to 4500rpm. i had a bit of a tutu with the steering mounted paddleshift and that was a bit of fun but I think the novelty would wear off quite quickly. CVT gives extremely good fuel economy. I think this sentence by Kaz sums it up perfectly "a lot of peoples negatives to CVT is that it sounds wrong." Cheers Stevo
lusty9,
Jul 29, 9:38am
not too long ago I drove a company RAV4 and I thought it was stuck in first gear until I got to the service station and the guy at the counter said: 'it probably has that shitty cvt gearbox?'must say it was different not having that pulling torque power of a normal auto but it was a laugh seeing the speedo go up while revving the gutts out of it and I gave it death too.
ambo11,
Jul 31, 7:01am
Having had a couple of cars with CVT, I like the economy they give compared to standard autos. first was a Nissan la Festa and the CVT was shagged in that. But, it gave incredible economy before it blew. Now have an Odyssey with CVT and love it. Ten times nicer than the shitty Nissan CVT, and makes the 2.4 Odyssey incredibly economical I feel. 2000RPM at 100km/h, and instant smooth pull without kickdowns etc etc per normal autos. I can do all my daily 50km commute which includes 100km/h areas and never go above 2500RPM. And on the open road if I plant boot it just pulls away cleanly and quickly. Tis the way cars have gone, so best we get used to it. Most kiwis probably won't get them serviced of course, so I wouldn't touch one over 100,000kms old.
bwg11,
Jul 31, 7:16am
I like the CVT transmission my wife's Swift Sport. Sure, the 6 speed manual would be better at a track day, but for everyday use, I would prefer the CVT to either a manual or 4/5 speed auto. While the CVT feels different to an "old" 4 speed auto, it really not that greatly different to a new 6,7 or 8 speed auto, with the engine at optimum rpm, depending on load and throttle position .
stevo2,
Jul 31, 7:35am
While on the subject of rpm at 100kph, Mrs Stevo's new CVT equipped S-Cross is idling along at a leisurely 1700rpm. No wonder it can achieve 5.8lt/100km.
tamarillo,
Jul 31, 11:53pm
Nah, the world best premium car makers are using and refining 8-9 speeds autos with torque converters and lock ups. They get just as good economy but cost more. Cvt is better than a cheap 4 or 5 speed auto for gas and much cheaper. Cost is the issue. DCT is the next big thing, all the advantages of CVT (efficient) and much nicer to drive. Audi did use CVT on lower powered smaller cars but stopped as the DCT was more popular with customers.
brapbrap8,
Aug 1, 1:35am
Farm tractors are going exactly the same way, there is a fairly even split currently between powershift (DCT) and CVT transmissions, although the CVTs used on tractors are quite different than automotive versions. Some examples of more advanced transmissions are:
John Deeres new direct drive transmission is virtually identical to the VAG DSG in operation, except it has more gears and is rather larger.
Case IH has a good CVT that is extremely complex and uses a conventional gearbox with about 6 clutches and some other wizardry to give a CVT effect.
The most advanced transmission on the market is probably the Fendt Vario which is effectively a differential mounted behind the engine, which at low speed splits power to a hydrostatic system to drive the wheels, then at higher speed the hydro static system is under enough load to make the differential send more power the other direction (power following the path of least resistance), which gives a direct drive to the axles without the losses that driving a gearbox usually gives.
The technology used in tractor transmissions is incredibly expensive, busting a Fendt Vario will easily see you with a $40,000 repair bill for example. Good to see some great technology coming from agriculture though, that may trickle down to automotive use at some point.
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