thats weather conditions not road or driver, unless the driver has an unsuitable vechile for the weather conditions.
road is more like a bald worn low friction road that police will not even skid test. or the road is got so much camber on it and such a bad surface that vehicles slide sideways on it. now some idiot is going to say "you should slow down for worn bald slippery road", however how do you know its worn and slippery until you start sliding and by then it could be to late.
bill-robinson,
Jan 1, 7:04pm
i call that operator error. did not read the conditions properly.
apollo11,
Jan 1, 7:24pm
Black ice is invisible. Some areas in Welly are a shit-ton of fun on a motorcycle in the early morning. Suddenly find yourself riding sideways down a steep hill.
tweake,
Jan 1, 7:32pm
how do you read the seal is worn and low traction before you drive on it at 100kmh? you can't. there is a expectation that the road is up to a certain spec. when the road is below that spec then its clearly a faulty road. thats why they skid test the road. there is standards for roads and especially traction spec for surfaces.
likit,
Jan 1, 7:37pm
There are 5 million kiwis, even at its peak don’t think there are 5 million tourists here so, I would expect that but.
tygertung,
Jan 1, 9:07pm
Because the cars are faster now, people expect to be going faster and getting up to the speed limit instantly. If they feel they've been delayed for a few seconds, they become exceedingly enraged.
In Canterbury, the drivers are very aggressive. In the Far North, they are much more relaxed.
The road toll may be lower now due to several factors: -Drink driving has fallen out of favour. -The cars are better handling now, so less likely to crash. -The cars are safer in crashes now.
With regard to road conditions, it is up to the driver to assess them and drive at a safe speed. If it is frosty, and it has been raining recently, expect black ice. The driver would be prudent to significantly reduce the speed of the vehicle.
bill-robinson,
Jan 2, 7:54am
were did i mention black ice? was it mentioned in the statement i replied to? people who live in wellington learn were black ice occurs and tend to avoid such places if possible. i did when i lived there.
bill-robinson,
Jan 2, 7:59am
pass the buck again, someone else did not test the road and tell me what it was like.
apollo11,
Jan 2, 8:14am
No, I mentioned black ice, as mentioned by other people above, sometimes the condition of the road creates unavoidable hazards. And people in wellington find out about the dangerous areas by encountering them. I saw numerous cases where people were defending themselves on careless driving charges because they slid off the road, or the car ended up in the harbour, and had to prove to the court that there was black ice that morning.
alowishes,
Jan 2, 8:17am
Nicely put bill!
‘Learn to read the road’ I say
alowishes,
Jan 2, 8:20am
Hmmm. so why did the road toll not take a dive commensurate with the lack of tourist drivers?
martin11,
Jan 2, 8:26am
Because the stats show they are less than 5 % of the accidents and probably less in actual deats on the road . New Zealand Drivers are known to be near the bottom of the list for good drivers in the world .
pico42,
Jan 2, 9:05am
Are you seriously suggesting that road surfaces get worn enough that cars just simply slide sideways off them? Road wear isn’t an on/off switch. It’s not full traction one day, no traction the next. It’s still stone chip or asphalt with an inherent level of traction, even with skid testing showing it’s worn and needing replaced.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 9:31am
And we have one of the better surfaces world wide for traction. Our chip is rough by world standards, and heaps better than concrete.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 9:32am
Apparently, we wear out our tyres quicker because of it.
bill-robinson,
Jan 2, 9:54am
hot mix has the best grip in both fine and wet weather, if it is put down correctly.
tweake,
Jan 2, 9:56am
absolutely. we have had several fatal accidents around here where that was proven to be the cause by the SCU.
roads get to the point where they are marginal in traction and it becomes a lottery. on an unforgiving poorly designed road in heavy traffic, the first vehicle to crash is often fatal.
bumfacingdown,
Jan 2, 10:35am
And then it gets "fixed" by putting up speed restriction signs
tweake,
Jan 2, 10:52am
exactly and wait 12 months before they get around to fixing it.
however there has been a few where they have fixed them straight away. one fatal was imho caused by incorrectly painted centre line in a corner. that was removed and repainted within hours of the crash and before the media got there. all the pics in the media of the crash are taken after the repair and no surprise the police rule it was "driver error".
its not an uncommon practise up here that they don't fix anything until people crash, especially crash bad enough that police and media are involved. sometimes even resorting to lying to the media to cover up their botch ups.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 11:15am
We are meant to keep a far as practicable. to the left. not the center.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 11:24am
Yes exactly. but people want to attribute kiwi's poor attitudes, to the road surface. and the bends.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 11:34am
And have any of you worked for a road construction company ?
The design requirements are quite explicit and stringent; everything from the camber and flatness to the surface.
tweake,
Jan 2, 12:04pm
a mate of mine used to overseas. his opinion is that generally the construction is on par with overseas but our tarsealing is 3rd world.
however there is a lot legacy issues from when there was no design. but also politics plays a part. ie highway status is removed and local council take over. council does a quick and dirty job to turn last bit of gravel road to tarseal. that increases traffic volumes which puts it back into highway status. then ltsa spends years fixing up the rough job.
the other issue is most of the good design elements have only come in more recently. we still have tons of main highways that are the same design as a back country road.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 12:08pm
There are legacy issues but all new work, including the back roads, have been done to high standards for a while now.
And yeah, councils used to be the worst but I'm pretty sure all the councils works now, as with all things bureaucratic, is tendered out to avoid liability.
mechnificent,
Jan 2, 12:10pm
The one problem we do have that can't be overcome easily is our "new" geology. Especially up here in northland. The land is unstable.
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