So how does all this fit in with Toyota having recently signed up to use BYD componentry in their upcoming EVs? https://youtu.be/UvzRfUGAB_s?t=179
tygertung,
Jun 9, 3:50am
Yes, but you are a special case. I dare say that most of the country doesn't have a 350 Km commute.
tygertung,
Jun 9, 3:51am
Could well be, however there isn't many 2 strokes there anymore. Pretty rare, well it was when I was there in 2015.
gazzat22,
Jun 9, 9:01pm
Its more to do with Max Bradfords" reforms" than anything this government has done , inconvenient to your thoughts as it might be.
harm_less,
Jun 12, 6:05am
Interesting take on the introduction of EVs: "Imagine we were going the other way, replacing electric cars with fossil fuel power.
You are writing the risk assessment for a new petrol station. You want to dig a big hole in the ground in the middle of town, put in some tanks and fill them up with an enormous amount of highly flammable fuel.
Do people realise the infrastructure in most suburbs can't handle the amperage draw all this charging will need. There is going to have to be a major upgrade of everything.
harm_less,
Jun 12, 8:14am
The same cautions were probably issued in regards to petrol distribution as cars replaced horses but that situation sorted itself out as will electricity distribution.
scuba,
Jun 12, 10:13am
Maybe not the same - you could carry gasoline your self or import it on existing transport / freight systems- The sales moved from the local stores/suppliers to more specialized Petrol retailers as market size increased.
loud_37,
Jun 12, 8:18pm
It will sort itself out, but are you prepared to pay 3 times as much for all the power you use.
harm_less,
Jun 12, 8:23pm
That's very unlikely as it would just drive consumers towards self generation by PV. We're in the process of doing exactly that right now.
sr2,
Jun 12, 9:20pm
As much as I’m a fan of EV’s (particularly for Auck. rush hour commuting); based on our current governments track record for getting things done your “that situation sorts itself out” philosophy is one hell of a leap of faith!
If we look at the Government websites for our yearly consumption - (1x Petajoule [PTJ] is 278 Gigawatt hours).
Yearly use of petrol is 113 PTJ’s Yearly use of Diesel is 141 PTJ’s
If we then look Electricity at production…
Yearly Hydro is 92 PTJ’s Yearly Oil is 296 PJS’s
If you do the maths the one question no one’s answering is how are we going to double our generation capacity in the next decade to power all these EV’s?
harm_less,
Jun 12, 9:32pm
If those statistics are energy content alone then the wasteage factor in ICEs (~80%) more than makes up for the shortfall.
Overall though the best way our government can increase electricity supply (without need for transmission upgrades) would be to incentivise the uptake of domestic PV. Currently though the public ownership of the big state generators makes an increase in buy back tariffs problematic so other incentivisation methods need to be used (subsidies, interest free loans, etc.)
sr2,
Jun 12, 11:05pm
No offence intended but you may be cherry picking your information.
Not sure about your US link [from their site] "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is now in Phase 2 of the National Nuclear Security Administration’s Phased Recovery and Re-entry Plan".
Lets stick to the NZ Stat's department for our information shall we?
harm_less,
Jun 12, 11:10pm
Never mind that the total PJs match yours pretty well. It is the proportion of wasted energy in transport that I found illuminating.
How about a link for the info you're quoting?
sr2,
Jun 13, 2:36am
There's a huge amount of info out there on NZ sites.
For example using the earths gravity to add kinetic energy to water, then converting that energy to a rotating mass in a turbine, then converting that rotating mass to electrical energy, transmitting that electrical energy many hundreds of miles, converting that electrical energy into chemical energy in an EV's battery bank, converting that chemical energy back into electrical energy, converting that energy into a rotating mass and finally converting that rotating energy into linear mechanical energy (i.e. the cars movement) is great technology that will be part of our future but is anything but 100% efficient.
As per my previous post, we need to do the maths.
alowishes,
Jun 13, 2:54am
In the early days a lot of benzene was bought in a case containing two 4 gallon tins and taken home to use as needed - in the early days of EVs will we be buying two big batteries to take home for our cars?
harm_less,
Jun 13, 3:24am
Back in the early days of ICEs we didn't have a pipe bringing benzine into our homes and businesses. Almost all homes and businesses are connected to the grid which is the modern equivalent, and in some cases that 'fuel' is actually generated at those locations by the consumer.
harm_less,
Jun 13, 3:33am
Lots of numbers and text. Is it really not possible for those NZ agencies to produce a Sankey diagram so that the information can be so much more easily digested? Or is that going to put too much of a negative perspective on our actual energy usage and efficiency? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6dlvECRfcI
sr2,
Jun 13, 4:01am
Very true but you're still not addressing the issue of where the massive increase in both generation and reticulation is going to come from in less than a decade?
I'll also point out the move from horses to fossil fuels was driven by economics not government enforced policy.
bwg11,
Jun 13, 4:39am
They probably will. They already tax the seeds, the fertilizer, the tools I tend them with and the land I grow them on.
harm_less,
Jun 13, 4:57am
Personally I'm in the process of installing 5kW of PV which will generate far more than our EV requires. The powers that be need to replicate that situation on 1,000s of houses by way of incentives or other 'leg up' means which would increase our national electricity generation hugely with minimal requirement for reticulation upgrades.
In regard to changing the national fleet to EVs, if more people were able to see that EVs are substantially cheaper to run and maintain the government wouldn't be needing to coerce consumers into converting. Tony Seba gives a good presentation outlining the economic benefits of electrifying the transport sector: https://youtu.be/6Ud-fPKnj3Q Tony has been giving these presentations for years and his predictions are proving correct, if not conservative.
EV prices are already reaching parity with ICEs in some cases and as that trend accelerates so will the conversion away from iCEs. It will be a no brainer economically.
framtech,
Jun 13, 5:13am
I get what you are saying but look at the facts from a family in NZ They drive a family car worth at best 6k and it costs them say 40 bucks a week to fuel it. Now look at EV, they cost five to ten times more, with. a battery that needs time to charge at a electron pump (because the family home has not the capacity to fast charge the car and electricity is very expensive) and families don't have much time during the week. Now if everyone shifts to EV - power prices are going to go through the roof because of the billions need to upgrade the grid. Now for that family they will need a loan of 30 - 100k to buy a reliable EV, then they will need a loan of 20k to put in the minimum spec solar / wind array and battery to the family home, (that is if they own the home) and if they do, most likely the bank won't give them the loan because of the mega mortgage they already have, now with the death of Ice vehicles there will be a massive amount of people that will lose their jobs, so the risk of borrowing will go up as well. Really as a country we need jobs, safe drinking water, to make lots of food, good healthcare, better schools, manufacturing going again, better roads, a roof over our heads, an up grade of electricity (just to power our current homes and industry) and a cheap way to get to work over country roads from one end of NZ to the other. What we don't need is EV, unemployed citizens on the tax payer tit, place name changes and a change away from english as our way of communication, cycle bridges beside a failing motorway bridges, broken hospitals, gangs running riot, exporting coal and importing coal for power stations and EV's on stewart Island. (all this crap is un-productive and cost a fortune. This country is sick and going downhill fast, if the current trends are anything to go on. With productivity gains and time (50 years) EV may slowly become an option, but not yet
tygertung,
Jun 13, 5:25am
$40 a week for fuel? Maybe back in the year 2000. Petrol is pretty expensive now.
Our family uses electric cargo bike which costs probably 10c to charge, lets say 70c a week at the generous side.
Cost $4.5k to buy. No WOF, rego, insurance, maintenance and repairs are much cheaper.
Basically cars are shithouse in terms of efficiency.
We do have a 20 year old dunga, but hardly use it, just for long distance trips and towing the trailer. Probably could get by without owning one and just rent when required realistically, but I like having the towbar.
framtech,
Jun 13, 5:29am
Not many people can afford Home power systems or modern cars ( I think the average age of a car in NZ is 14 years), so taxing people and forcing up grades won't wash with 80% of Kiwi on the limit and with a shaky future with council rates and housing predicted to go through the roof (180 billion on water, 8 billion on power grids just to cap current population) and the increase cost of housing. this green dream is a bureaucratic fart as the government are thinking to lower the voting age to allow even thicker labour voters in the system.
framtech,
Jun 13, 5:40am
whats this crap, we are talking about cars and I get 300 klms out of a 60 dollar fuel load in the car and I drive with my foot flat and the back half of the car full of work gear over the hills. Take you blinkers off, im talking about the whole country, the farmers, transport ind, builders and other tradies, freezing workers, fruit pickers, pack houses, wine growers, who travel everywhere all the time and pay tax to support the lazy to drink piss and breed more lazy labour voters
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