I am somewhat confused that now that there are virtually no cars coming in from the UK and not too many from Europe, that the numbers racing Jap machinery are so low.
With the Japanese Classic Series, plus Honda Cup, plus open saloon classes, fast and slow, how come the number of old Euros classic racing is so much higher!
Just about any 2 litre Jap car of recent times is streaks faster than my 40 year old, 3 litre cast iron engined slug or an MGB, yet there are heaps of old Brit cars and 100+ BMWs racing regularly.The classic meeting at HD on Sunday has way more entries than the ACC meeting at Pukekohe catering for their saloons.Why!
Jap cars are (according to most), fast, reliable, cheap to buy and cheap to service and repair, so why aren't all their race grids full!
Is there a reason!
kazbanz,
Mar 29, 5:37am
socram--maybee simply because nobody thought about it! -looked to me that the suzuki swift grid is pretty full
morrisman1,
Mar 29, 6:03am
Do they have the racing heritage! Im not from that era so dont really know. Is the racing heritage of the brits and euros more important than speed to the racers!
socram,
Mar 29, 7:04am
Sorry if I wasn't too clear, but I meant at National (club racing) level.Even at tier one level, (Suzuki Swifts) grids are small, (that is a different issue) but at club level or entry level, where traditionally, amateur numbers are quite healthy, they are no longer coming out to race.Grids are shrinking. Wages are higher than they have ever been and cars are cheaper - particularly for teenagers and early twenty somethings and spares are plentiful.
There is no shortage of entry level series, fast and slow, where Jap or any cars are welcomed, particularly road going cars, but as I said, where are they!I know that the classics appeal to us old farts who can still enjoy recalcitrant older cars, but the shortage of moderns is difficult to explain.
morrisman1,
Mar 29, 7:08am
I hope to be out there in a modern next season
twink19,
Mar 29, 7:28am
as you know my car, even with historic scheuule K isnt allowed at most race meetings, and other car is much the same, so it sits at home, maybe I need to buy a Jappa to compete
ryanm2,
Mar 29, 7:41am
Youngsters - lets say under 30's have to weigh up the cost of motor sport in terms of 'can i still pay a mortgage and race' Often the answer is no.
pebbles61,
Mar 29, 7:44am
lol I don't know a single under 30 with a house/mortgage.get real, we're never gonna own a house now. Might as well blow the cash on racing and have some fun.
rob_man,
Mar 29, 7:45am
And the Japs do love their front wheel drive.
pebbles61,
Mar 29, 7:50am
So do the Poms _b
countrypete,
Mar 29, 8:12am
The same thing can be seen in motocross, road bike racing, and in fact in leisure motorcyclingIn that area - particularly mx / enduro / trail bikes - a large number of riders / competitors are farmers and tradespeople.Those are two areas that have been badly affected by the recent recession (from which we have not recovered).Leisure activities and toys are the first things to go when money gets tight, and that explains why there are less people getting involved.
Those people well-established financially are still playing with their toys, but those who perhaps have had a financial fright (farmers and tradespeople fro eg) are more conservative now, and are more concerned with establishing a financial backstop, or reducing debt at the least, before indulging in toys or expensive pastimes.
pollymay,
Mar 29, 8:17am
Still building my beast and the light at the end of the tunnel was waaaaay further than I thought.
cheapy11,
Mar 29, 8:19am
So many of the young people you are talking of, seem to have spent their hard earned$$ on drifting rather that circuit racing.
socram,
Mar 29, 8:47am
Some good stuff here, but still no real answers.
I went to watch senior grandson at a motoX event not so long ago and was staggered to see about 350 kids- all of school age, many with bikes that cost more than the last MG I raced!Most appeared to be country kids too judging by the schools they were representing.
I don't accept that buying a house is an impossible dream either.With 16 year olds on $26,000 a year gross, probably paying mum a pittance, where does the money really go and why not into a savings account!
Maybe motorsport no longer has the appeal it did when I was a lad and devoured every book in the local library, read every single word in Motorsport each month (including all the ads) and ached to be able to buy my first car!
Motorsport is relatively cheap here compared to the UK.Or, maybe the youngsters don't realise what the costs are at an entry level!
Maybe the abysmal tier one racing of recent times has put them off rather than inspired them!Or maybe they prefer X-Box and Play station rather than getting their hands dirty!
Whatever the reason, if the current moderns aren't racing, maybe circuit racing is on the wane altogether!If that is so, then it looks as though we will have to look at the classics.
Twink - you know your car is eligible for any open saloon racing - classic or otherwise - and the historic saloons is now almost a viable class.
gedo1,
Mar 29, 4:21pm
In the upper part of the North Island (don't know about the rest of NZ) the attendance at most motor race events is MUCH lower these days than it has ever been. Just check the lack of people attending great events at Hampton Downs!I have also noticed when I have gone to events that there are fewer younger persons and most seem to be older mature types.So it seems interest in motor racing it waning dramatically in this country so that may also be having an effect on the number of participants. What you think!
pollymay,
Mar 29, 4:26pm
On the issue of young people not being out there I feel it's because it's not held as a viable sport IMO or gets the exposure it should. I'm from pukekohe, it's built around a racetrack. The whole time I was at high school teachers would try to shove rugby, soccer, ping pong, ANYTHING that was a "physical" sport down my throat. I started racing at 14, no one expressed interest. The first 15 rugby team got more attention for putting on a shocking performance or getting funded to buy stupid items they didn't need like special coloured mouthguards than me taking out my class in the rally sprints. I even got mentioned in several issues of petrolhead, picture and all, no one cared. I put everything in my cars. Physically I was working FAR harder than the la-cross team or whatever and doing more to get out there but things were so narrow minded and focused on other things as to be ignored.
The local dirt track had cheap thrills but the first thing people would think when I mentioned that is "you're just dangerously hooning around" yet from a safety standpoint I could handle a car and not only outdrive but in the case of a few I've outlived them thanks to roadside trees. A lot of stereotyping. For instance when I broke my arm rolling my car the teachers had nothing but scorn but some knucklehead breaks a shoulder doing rugby then "get better soon eh! gotta win the finals this year"
Honestly it felt like I could never be proud of what I was doing, it was under the radar as well. Couldn't be happier doing it but people's attitude's stunk. There were a few that were pretty good about it but overall not that great. And at no point did ANYONE at the school endorse the idea of it, even moto-X was kept on the down low. We even had some great martial artists and things like that which never seemed to get the mention they should have. Once again stupid things like building an enormous mutant paper mache butterfly seemed to be what they encouraged.
Much preferred the real deal to playstation btw ;)
jerichord,
Mar 29, 7:26pm
young blokesare a lot happier hooning around the streets, havnt got the gonads to tackle the track.
jason_247,
Mar 29, 8:12pm
much of it comes down to rwd > fwdhence 100+ e30 bmws
kcf,
Mar 29, 9:16pm
Honda Cup, SS2000 are both packed with Japanese cars.Every club level hillclimb, sprint, autocross are chock full of under 2000cc Japanese cars, most of the dual car sprint meetings are full of front wheel drives and relatively cheaper Japanese cars.So maybe it's just that the guys who are running the relatively cheaper cars like this, are tending to stay in the "relatively" cheaper types of motorsport to race in!
That said, rallying is also utterly full of small Japanese cars, and while that is huge value for money (miles raced, vs $ paid) it's not "cheap" as such by the time you've paid for a weekend away for you and the service crew.
Dunno, I've probably raised more questions than answers, but my experience is massively different than your own.That said, I'm Lower North Island and clubsport, whilst you're upper North and I am assuming mostly circuit racing!
patiki1,
Mar 29, 11:09pm
Maybe alot of the jap cars are into drifting!
socram,
Mar 29, 11:54pm
pollymay - that is it in a nutshell.Extremely well put and I endorse every single word.
kcf - I raised the issue simply because around here, the grids are nowhere near full.So much so, that at the closing date for the ACC Puke meeting, Sunday, I think they had just 25 cars.(Not sure where it is at now with late entries), but just under 100 at Hampton Downs classics - though we are not allowed to mention it is classics, as MSNZ don't like us using that term if cars don't have a piece of paper.
Spectators will not flock to meetings big or small, if there are only a few cars there.Even less likely in IMHO if it is limited to about 4 makes.
Look back at pics of Ardmore and early Pukekohe and there were 1000's there.Equally, I saw a pic in a recent UK magazine of the 1970s Super Saloons at a demo at Mallory Park last year.In their heyday, even club meetings had heaps of spectators when these cars were running, but the pic was memorable for me as the number of spectators was not high, so that is not just an NZ problem.
If I could guarantee even 1,000 spectators at $10 a head, then race entry fees could be reduced by $10 - provided we had enough entries to get above break even that is.Quite a few meetings have lost money in the last couple of years and the ACC meeting end November 2010 had to be cancelled for the first time ever, throuogh lack of entries.
As pollymay says, whether it is the media or right down to school teachers, motorspoprt doesn't exist, yet you don't need to look any further than the McLaren F1 team, Scott Dixon, Greg Murphy, Paul Radisich etcto know that these are household names even in places where motorsport is low on the agenda.
The Halberg awards are a joke as regards any form of motorsport and on the TV news, you are more likely to hear of a lawns bowls player's back strain before a competition, or see acres of empty stands at a cricket match, than any motorsport news, yet we know that high profile televised motorsport events attract good viewing figures.
Ironically, the newstands have more car and bike magazines than any other single category, other than maybe womens' magazines.
Maybe Jerichord has it right.The youngsters are only happy hooning around illegally, where their real talent cannot be measured against their peers, or their definition of talent is how much smoke you can create from Mum's car, without being found out.
Whatever the reasons, I still see trouble ahead for the sport if the current moderns are not better represented.
geedubu,
Mar 30, 1:25am
It really is a puzzle.When you look at the performance capability of Japanese cars from the last twenty years; the numbers available at a good price; the thriving performance bits industry and the huge amount young people are spending ontheir cars, it is hard to understand why they not out enjoying them on circuits.I have seen a few at track days, looking great, going like the clappers and being driven well.But not many compared to the numbers on the street.Very hard to know how to attract them to the track, but an essential mission.BTW there is a FACTORY Mugen Honda CRX, ready to race, on TME for $6,800.Affordability isn't the issue!
trouser,
Mar 30, 1:33am
I know about 20 or so under 30's with houses/mortgages. It does, amazingly, happen.
infamy1,
Mar 30, 1:43am
Being a 23 year old I thought I would add my 2cents, I love motorsport and watch it, live it and breath it at every opportunity. I used to own an Mitsubishi Evo 6, and now have a mbike- Suzuki RGV 250cc. I found the transition to owning a nice car/bike and getting properly involved in racing a difficult transition. Most of the friends I made in car clubs were part of the younger crowd and I wasn't really into drifting or getting into all the illegal aspects of it all like they were. So kinda distanced myself from the whole scene. It seemed to me like the younger generation just wanted to do 'skidz' and had lost respect for the machines and they werent focusing on the sport just more of the hooning side of it. Financially motorsport is an expensive sport and I will probably get into it when I can afford to crash the bike or car and not have to worry about it too much. Also track meetings and track days are a little pricey, though I would be really keen on introductory laps around a race track with some one a bit more experienced mentoring me!
socram,
Mar 30, 2:23am
Costs wise, of course it isn't a cheap sport, but compared to golf for example, it compares well. Essential costs are of course a club membership fee (under $100pa), overalls and a helmet (under $1,000 if you really want, lasts 5 - 7 years), a fire extinguisher (under $50 these days) an an annual race licence of $150. They are the basics.Sprint and hillclimb entry fees are quite modest and one day race fees from about $140 - $200. The only real extra then is your car and there are always race ready cars available for under $10,000. Fuel isn't too bad and road tyres generally last OK.
Considering that there are youngsters around who think that a packet of fags a day and several drinks a night is good value for money, I really don't think cost is an issue, yet they seem to think that racing on the public roads with all its attendant risks is OK, but organised motorsport is not for them.
infamy1 - if you go along to any track day at HD or Puke for example, have access to overalls and take your helmet, there are any number of drivers who have cars with MSNZ approved rollover protection who would be more than happy to chauffeur you around - for free.All you need do is to sign the disclaimer.
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