Diesel motors service intervals?

Aha!
This page will give you a better idea of the Payloads.
http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/transporter-range/transporter-panelvan/specifications/

You will have to muck around clicking on size and space and specifications but you will eventually get to a big page that lists them all. In short yes a lot of the models do have payloads up around the 1100KG. Both short and long wheelbase versions too.

It would also be worth ringing the Italian Auto Centre and other Fiat dealers. My Folks got an amazing deal on an ex demo Ducato and they could have had the auto version for much the same discounted price.

EDIT, from reading through the list with the VW if its automatic (DSG) so long as its not a 4WD one its going to have a payload of near enough 1100KG. That goes for long/short wheelbase and high/low roof.

Here is the NZ brochure, its better than the other links I posted and gives you all the information together.

http://www.volkswagen.co.nz/media/country/nz/x/commercial_vehicles/transporter.Par.0041.File.pdf/transporter_model.pdf

Along those lines you could actually say technically it was invented by Cummins in the 40's.

Hino's version is technically a common rail unit but still uses old fashioned mechanical technology. The common rail engine as we know it today (controlled by a computer) is a Fiat invention, they did collaboratewith a couple of other party's on its development though(not Hino).

Bottom line, if it was not Fiats invention they could not have sold it to Bosch.

Sorry triangle, I have spammed the hang out of your thread!

Just one last thing, assuming you are not delivering something weird or in a weird way I would suggest you try a manual with the gear lever on the dash.

I say this as we have a van setup like this that we used for delivery's. The difference between that and a floor mounted manual is immense. I find a regular manual a real chore after using one of those and don't wish for an auto at all even after having had that van for 100'000km of mostly town use.

That said, I absolutely love the DSG, we have had 4 cars with the transmission in the family and its by far and away my favorite transmission of all time. Driving a regular auto is painful after a DSG, its the best of both worlds, manual transmission economy and easy servicing, lots of gears, gear changes that are literally faster than you can blink and no torque converter taking away your engine braking and sapping your power.

Anyhow, enough from me. Happy test driving!

Jazz are you referring to a tiptronic! Yea my hip was playing up today so we didnt get to do a test drive. We deliver junk mail in bulk to a network of walkers. the route is 90km and can involve up to 60 drop offs. wife and I work as a 2 man team. Me driving and work out of rear door. She works out of side door and sorts as I drive. We intend spending up to $5000 customising the cargo area with special seating false floor etc. all designed to make the job easier.

Bollocks the New Ranger is 15,000km or 12 months and the Transit is 30,000 or 12 months

No I was meaning the likes of the new vans (Fiat/VW etc) where it has a regular manual but the gear lever comes out of the dash right by the steering wheel. Because you barely move your hand off the wheel to change gear it takes most of the fatigue out of town driving.

However. it sounds like your reason for the auto may be related to your hip! In which case that won't help you.

I think you should drive a DSG T5, if I had to have an auto that's what I would have every time. Also. for the sort of running you are doing you are not going to get the claimed average economy I used for my back of the envelope $2000ish running cost difference. What that will mean is that the difference in diesel cost will likely be quite a bit more than I projected between the likes of the Hyundai and the VW.

The reason being, with a regular auto you lose about 30% of your power/economy until the torque converter locks up. The DSG does not lose anything as it has no torque converter.

With your running the torque converter is barely ever going to lock up at all. With that in mind the $2000ish difference in running costs I estimated will likely be quite conservative.

The Hyundai basically has 3 things constantly working against it compared to the VW and your running conditions unfortunately make the worst of those issues. The problems are:
* 2 Less gears
* Torque converter sapping power/economy
* A less efficient engine

BTW, the Fiat also has not torque converter so will have some of the benefits of economy that the VW will. But the VW has the more economical engine and the DSG transmission it uses is still superior to Fiats.

Food for thought.

triangle,

I have been doing some thinking this morning regarding your kind of use. I think there are some points to consider and ask Hyundai about.

Whats on my mind is that realistically you are doing "severe running" this is because basically you are running the van from a standstill up to speed 60+ times every run. Also you are doing much of that with a sizable load on board. (Not unlike towing a heavy trailer for much of it if you are heading towards your 1100kg payload).

What this means is that the traditional automatic transmission in the Hyundai should really be serviced quite frequently. Do some research but I would suggest annually for your milage and conditions. So you would want to factor that in as a cost.

Also, the Hyundai sales people will likely not tell you this but realistically for that sort of running any diesel engine should have its oil change interval shortened. The constant takeoffs are precisely the right conditions to quickly soil your engine oil. This is made worse the less efficient the engine is (at the risk of over-simplification thats why old fashioned diesels had huge oil filters, lots of oil and very frequent changes).

If you put the VW on its variable setting it will reduce its oil change interval automatically to suit your conditions (it monitors how its been driven, fuel use etc). I am not sure if Hyundai have this option but its worth asking. What concerns me is if you shorten the VW's max interval by say half its still going to be nearly a year before it needs an oil change.

If you do the same with the Hyundai you are looking at changing the oil nearly quarterly.

The other thing on my mind is the warranty. I would suggest you talk to Hyundai about this, sometimes with warranty's you have to get it serviced by the manufacturers agent to get the full warranty. That will tend to mean you are likely to be in to quite a bit more in service costs than suggested earlier in this thread. So, I would suggest you find out what the go is with that. Also. service does not just mean an oil change, there will be oil/air/fuel filters, brake fluid, coolant etc on a fairly regular basis.

With the VW and its DSG, you have an advantage on the transmission service costs. The 7 speed dry clutch unit is great for your purpose because the parts that are contained in the fluid are much like the parts in a manual transmission. SO you don't have to service it hardly ever. Technically its "sealed for life" but I would suggest you change the fluid at 100'000km.

Be VERY cautious if they try and say something like that about the Hyundai transmission (I don't think they will though) as regular auto's need servicing and they need it quite frequently under heavy work conditions. There have been regular auto's in past that were "sealed for life" and as far as I am aware every single one of them was prone to premature failure at great expense. The reason being a regular auto creates "filth" due to the nature of the parts which wear in the fluid. This filth then blocks filters, oilways and creates an abrasive which accelerates wear.

Anyhow, that's worth considering. I think the nature of what you are doing is a bit of a game changer in terms of your actual service costs. I would suggest you get those service costs priced up by Hyundai, I hope I am wrong but I suspect that even just 2 engine plus one transmission service a year may be pushing you up towards $1500 in annual servicing. If you decide to be nice to the van and service the engine more often its only going to be dearer again.

Realistically if you service both vehicles properly I can see your real world running cost gap between the VW & Hyundai in the $3000 - $4000 range per year for your sort of use. Thats a LOT of cash.

I would suggest a call to a transmission specialist for an independent idea on how often that transmission should be serviced. Just make sure you explain that the van is doing 60+ stop/starts with a heavy load per run for 25K+ a year.

One more thing. In fairness, while the DSG does not really need much/any servicing at all for your running I wouldn't be surprised if you wore the clutch out in say 5 years (with regular running they last much longer). So it would make sense to factor that cost in. However, what you save in running costs between the two vans will recoup the cost of a clutch replacement in just a few months.

In case you are unaware, the DSG operates like an automatic gearbox (exactly the same to drive as an auto) but underneath its built more like a manual gearbox. Instead of an inefficient torque converter it uses two clutches that are automatically operated. By using two clutches instead of one it can pre-engage the next gear above and below the one you are using, that gives it a gear change that is even faster than an auto.

That might make understanding the difference in maintenance/efficiency a bit easier. The DSG I think its safe to say would now be the most popular automatic transmission in the world as VW is the second largest manufacturer by volume and the DSG option is more popular than the auto option from the largest manufacturer (Toyota).

Tired of reading yet!!

LOL.

LOl.

Lol.

lol.

I didn't read ANY of it. (I'm sane)

Jazz is a VW salesman.right!
Must be good diesel vans as Coca Cola NZ is running a fleet of them. Use hardly any juice and have 30,000 km service intervals.
Mind you.It's a brave person who leaves the same oil in a diesel for 30,000 k's

The "brave" part is when you go from an old school diesel to a common rail. Once you see how lovely and clean the oil is its easy to understand how it can last so long. Fiat have been doing quite long intervals since their first common rails in the mid 90's and those have lasted incredibly well.
That said, I would run the VW on variable intervals and let it choose to shorten them appropriately with the sort of hard use the OP has. If the Hyundai dosn't have variable intervals I would watch the oil and shorten appropriately myself.

And no, I am not a salesman, just a very enthusiastic owner. We have had a number of them in the family and they have been phenomenal, I do the servicing on them myself(including DSG, timing belts etc) now I have the time and am very impressed with the setup.

That said, my Folks are running a new Ducato at the moment and I like that too.

Jazz good adviceand I will talk to them about servicing costs and warranty etc.

I didn't read all of jazz's posts, but one of the links he had up indicated the van had some free scheduled servicing which may be worth looking at

Great stuff triangle. sorry its a lot to take in.
I would be very interested to hear what Hyundai would charge for servicing and how often they think the transmission and engine needs doing given your driving conditions.Make sure to explain about the 60+ stop starts per run and the heavy load on each run.

If you wanted to come back with the prices and frequency of servicing I am happy to help you do the math on both with some actual figures and then you can compare more accurately.

Best of luck!

Good spotting, I really have little idea what Hyundai and VW will offer and charge in terms of pricing for the servicing. It would be interesting to see, I am particularly interested in what they say/recommend regarding the heavy running.

No you can't, they were unit injectors or HEUI injectors, which were camshaft operated. They are different than todays common rail with electronic valves.

Have now bought the Hyundai. they recommend 15000k intervals. it is only ever fully loaded at beginning of course and is empty by end of 90k run.
Thanks for all the help guys.

Enjoy your new purchase Triangle, I hope it goes really well for you. Don't forget to service the automatic transmission regularly.