A variant, the 125 T, was made by the Fiat importers in New Zealand, Torino Motors, for the annual 6 hour production car race, the Benson and Hedges 500. The 125T has larger valves, two twin Weber DCOH or Dell'Orto 40DHLA carburettors (depending on availability), modified camshafts and a higher compression ratio to produce around 125 bhp (93 kW), lowered and stiffer suspension. All featured Ward alloy wheels and were painted bright yellow. Sources for production figures quote that between 84 and 89 were modified. Reasons for stopping production are sometimes given that Fiat headquarters found out and stopped this venture
Bugga me.There ya go.
snoopy221,
Jul 16, 7:05am
an 850 sport coupé
Those things go HARD.
snoopy221,
Jul 16, 7:13am
Seen one gennySand about 3 gennyTs Oh and a aboot 5 850 coupe's makes ya wonder what a good 125 T would be worht nowadays -(If ONLY we KNEW how damn rare they were aye)
splinter67,
Jul 16, 2:04pm
I spent 9 months in a H1 hyundai van dont tell me they lack power. Economy no they missed the boat you should stop reading reveiws and actualy drive one as for the dda vans they run fords in Hb
fiatracer,
Jul 16, 3:06pm
no, it wasn't a hatchback, until many years later
motorboy2011,
Jul 16, 3:09pm
Citroën did one earlier than the a40
gedo1,
Jul 16, 3:23pm
About the common-rail diesel thing, Jazz, check out the actual history of its development. Seriously, I think it was perfected by a Japanese company.not Fiat.Funny that!
chebry,
Jul 16, 3:36pm
PSA in france developed that in a joint venture with Ford
splinter67,
Jul 16, 3:40pm
Seen on a wall in a continental garage Fiat is always trouble
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 4:43pm
I have read the history, yes there was some collaboration, yes the likes of cumins technically had a common rail design in the 40's (but obviously not electronically controlled). The company you speak of was also working on something at the same time.
BUT.
Bottom line, Fiat got the job done, that's why it was Fiat who was able to sell the patent to Bosch. The Fiat system IS the modern common rail system that's why most manufacturers pay Bosch for the license to use the technology. End of story.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 4:43pm
I have read the history, yes there was some collaboration, yes the likes of cumins technically had a common rail design in the 40's (but obviously not electronically controlled). The company you speak of was also working on something at the same time.
BUT.
Bottom line, Fiat got the job done, that's why it was Fiat who was able to sell the patent to Bosch.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 4:50pm
Fiat were actually going to bring front wheel drive into mainstream production really early on (Possibly the 30's if my memory serves correct). However one of the Chiefs at the time was really conservative and put a stop to the idea.
Good point on the separate gearbox, I was not aware of that.
There are other things I wonder about too, like the low fuel light. Did anyone else have one in the 60's!
What about the clever doorlocking system of the same time that mean you couldn't lock your keys in the car!
Lights that can't be left on!
This was all really early stuff from the 60's as well.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 4:52pm
I always wanted an 850 Convertible but deep pockets Mal always out bids me when they come available in NZ. My factory campervan runs Fiat 850 running gear. Those little motors are amazing, the one in the van is pulling over 5000 rpm at cruise in top gear. Yet it does so all day happily.
pauldw,
Jul 16, 4:57pm
Interesting how the story gets spun
Fiat centric "A few years ago Fiat made the mistake of licensing another important innovation, ???common rail??? diesel technology, to Bosch: being financially weak, it could not afford to keep common rail to itself."
Bosch view "it remained largely dormant until rediscovered by the Fiat Group in the early 1990s. Applying it to an initial prototype, however, involved major problems dealing with issues such as tolerance and durability. In 1993, Bosch acquired all relevant patents, refining the Common Rail system until it was ready for its market launch in late 1997."
gedo1,
Jul 16, 4:58pm
Close to correct now Jazz.Fiat Group who worked with other organisations on the development of the electronic control for the injection of diesel fuel (as against the mechanical system), ran out of money and had no choice but to sell what it knew.Common rail was a Swiss "invention" and was first used in an automotive application apparently by a Japanese outfit albeit using a mechanical control.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:01pm
What's wrong with that!
Fiat still had the system together and working. Without Fiat Bosch would have had nothing to buy. I think Bosch much have paid an enormous sum for it too as from what I have read that money funded much of the development of a new model lineup.
gadgit3,
Jul 16, 5:03pm
The ND common rail system is a very different system to the Bosch system are you sure MOST manufactures are paying Bosch.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:03pm
I am fairly happy with that. I don't give much cred to the "Japanese outfit" because despite technically being "common rail" its the electronic control that makes it. That and the mechanical version was Cummins idea back in the 40's.
Happy with that too. Its much along the same lines as what I have read in past.
gedo1,
Jul 16, 5:11pm
Hey Jazz. I just read that reference from bwg11 - we are both right according to that. Gotta be proud of that!Now, how about CVT!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:13pm
I was waiting for the CVT reference. Its the other one that is open to mud slinging from those who want to argue semantics.
The concept is as old as the hills. From memory there were one or two others who managed a very limited run of transmissions that were available to consumers.
However. Fiat were the first to get it reliable and into mass production in a format we would recognise as a modern CVT transmission. I not rushed and checked any of this just now with wiki or anything so lets see if I remember things fairly.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:13pm
Yip I am pretty happy with that! Its very much how I remembered things. Thats why the careful wording on my original post. you will note it dosn't just say "Fiat invented all of these things".
I was waiting for the CVT reference. Its the other one that is open to mud slinging from those who want to argue semantics.
The concept is as old as the hills. From memory there were one or two others who managed a very limited run of transmissions that were available to consumers.
However. Fiat were the first to get it reliable and into mass production in a format we would recognise as a modern CVT transmission. I have not rushed and checked any of this just now with wiki or anything so lets see if I remember things fairly.
motorboy2011,
Jul 16, 5:15pm
so more or less Boch paid good money for an idea that worked on paper but worked like shit in real life, then perfected it. 4 years is a lot of perfecting.
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