Don't forget that GM paid $2B to be able to walk away.
bwg11,
Jul 16, 5:18pm
I'm remembering too - what about the DAF for a CVT! must go and research.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:19pm
It worked in practice too. 4 years is not a lot of time to get a brand new concept perfected, tooled up and into production at all.
Especially when you consider the first system was good and reliable out of the box. When Toyota finally introduced theirs much much later they still didn't manage to do as well. In fact I am still waiting for a system from Toyota that is as reliable as Fiat/Bosch's first attempt.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:20pm
That's the small production attempt I was referring to. Read what I said.
bwg11,
Jul 16, 5:22pm
Yes, quote from Wiki, " In 1959 DAF started selling the world's first car with a continuously variable transmission, the small four-seater DAF 600. This was the first of a series of models to be released in subsequent years, including the DAF 33, DAF 44, DAF 55 and DAF 66, all using the innovative Variomatic transmission system."
It is all coming back - there was also an Austin in the late 1930's with CVT - will find it and post a link.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:26pm
Yip, happy with that. However. (and again this is from memory) if you look up some production numbers you will see it was all short run stuff. Hardly mainstream.
I can't remember what DAF were using for a clutch but I suspect that was likely what stopped it being a very good system.
The first proper run of a system that would last the test of time was the Fiat Panda. I think 1983ish but feel free to check that.
Remember. I am not claiming Fiat invented the first one. The test is whether its fair to put under my heading. I was thinking of the CVT when I wrote the last part.
"If they don't think of it first they are usually first to get it working properly and into production."
bwg11,
Jul 16, 5:30pm
The Hayes Auto Transmission (CVT). Yes Jazz, not commercially successful but interesting.
Absolutely, and in fairness probably quite an inspiration to Fiat. If there's is the one I remember from the pictures its similar to the one used in F1. I don't remember it being encased in anything, all its "bits" are exposed for everyone to see!
Motorscooters were probably using a primitive system similar to DAF's before the Panda came along too.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 5:33pm
Got to go for the moment, thanks for the discussion its always fun!
attitudedesignz,
Jul 16, 5:36pm
Cambelts (production vehicle) = Glas 1004 1962 People mover = Stout Scarab 1936
That's just 2 seconds of research, if i had the time OR inclination i'm sure i could debunk all your claims jaz.
Way to Go Fiat. ALMOST leading the world in transmissions for AWFUL little cars since 1991!
gedo1,
Jul 16, 5:39pm
Interesting discussion!The wiki reference is a good one so thanks bwg11. Seems there were and are many different CVT systems.However I remember when DAF started using it in their series of vehicles. I think DAF was bought out by one of the Swedish companies - VOLVO! Anyway. "A CVT, called Variomatic, was designed and built by Hub van Doorne, co-founder of Van Doorne's Automobiel Fabriek (DAF), in the late 1950s, specifically to produce an automatic transmission for a small, affordable car. The first DAF car using van Doorne's CVT, the DAF 600, was produced in 1958.[ In the summer of 1987 (nearly 30 years later - GedO) the Ford Fiesta and Fiat Uno became the first mainstream European cars to be equipped with steel-belted CVT (as opposed to the less robust rubber-belted DAF design). This CVT, the Ford CTX was developed by Ford, Van Doorne, and Fiat, with work on the transmission starting in 1976." It is quite apparent that the normal human trait for taking an invention and improving it was not just confined to the Japanese- long may it continue!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 6:24pm
Just popped back for a few minutes.
If you go back and read the thread again you will see we are not necessarily talking about things "Fiat invented" at all. In fact the wording has even been repeated again for clarity in a more recent post.
Cambelts
Fiats claim to fame I was referring to was them being the first to use one on a twin cam engine in the fashion we are now accustomed to. This should need no further explanation as the famous Fiat twin cam engine should be familiar to any car enthusiast or mechanic.
People movers
If you bothered to read your own link you would see the Stout Scarab didn't ever make production with less than 10 units ever made.
Fiats original Multipla enjoyed 10 years of actual proper production and you can jump online and usually find one for sale somewhere at any time. In fact I have even seen a few for sale in NZ over the years. Until someone can provide an earlier production people mover that as far as I am aware is the first proper production people mover.
When someone publishes a list like this off the cuff its easy to argue semantics and become a Wiki Warrior, its even easier to try and twist what they are claiming. However the threads premise of the Italians being real pioneers still holds.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 16, 6:29pm
Your same link dosn't show the CVT version available until later. Your same source as shown in another post and gives credit to the Fiat/Ford team for the first proper production example.
richardmayes,
Jul 16, 6:40pm
In fairness.
I imagine that if you took a tiny650cc CVT fiat from the 1990s, and instead of trying to blast around the Auckland motorways in it you transplanted back to the environment it belongs in. the old quarter of an ancient Mediterranean city with steep narrow cobbled lanes. that sort of car would suddenly make a lot more sense and look far more attractive!
curlcrown,
Jul 16, 6:43pm
Pittey, after all these decades they still can't make a decent auto transmission.
chebry,
Jul 16, 11:23pm
Worlds worst transmission ever way to go Fiat right up t6here with biodegradable bodywork and electrics that fail in damp climates
chebry,
Jul 16, 11:23pm
Worlds worst transmission ever way to go Fiat right up there with biodegradable bodywork and electrics that fail in damp climates
hijacka,
Jul 17, 5:31am
At least you can now make coffees while you wait for the ''AA''
hijacka,
Jul 17, 5:38am
Thats for sure snoop! Thanks for finding that link too.
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