Clutch slave cylinder / thrust bearing ceased

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tiggles2, Nov 9, 3:13pm
Thank you sr2 :)
During one of my first conversations with Nev I said we are all only human and make mistakes - he took this as an accusation - his staff never make mistake.
I think I have a reasonable handle on the MTA they have flipped their stand on this three times now (with every phone call ) And I get the distinct impression they are brand guarding as in their members - court is looking very much like the only option
The principal issues are the facts I feel bullied and treated like a mushroom, the $$ secondary - as said I maybe green but I not a cabbage
Customer relations and service is very much important in my own work - to treat someone like these I would be broke in a week. I don't intend on backing down
Supernova - I did ask if it was the correct bearing - 2 /3 thought it was.
yes it is very munted and this concerns me - two objects rubbing together at speed enough to create fiction burn to heat the bearing to the point of self welding - the other object had to have damage. The groves in the soft side that is left are deep. I get that when i had stopped long enough it either stopped spinning long enough to cool and seize or fell off what it was rubbing against and seize but what was it.
I know pull it apart and look - working on that
They said they had the slave at the beginning of the week it was examined when they discussed the matter - now it has gone !
I posted back on here that Nev was not keen to send it - and its not here.
A mechanic yesterday said that in the very very unlikely chance a slave would fail other than from the master cylinder, the piston would be the give away in that is would have worn marks, even flattened on one side - but then this should have been picked up when they overhauled the clutch as fluid would still leak.
*bangs head against wall*
A fair arrangement is fine - but this is worse than negotiation eating dinner with my 3 year old grandson

ozz1, Nov 9, 6:06pm
thats the side that should be contacting the pressure plate.!bearing has beenput on THE WRONG WAY.

supernova2, Nov 9, 9:15pm
I agree bearing is wrong way round.Anyone know what sort of carrier arrangement is in this particular truck!

Whats the bet the apprentice or even the lad on work experience was used to "box the job up" and simply had no idea what he was doing.I doubt a qualified person would be so stupid as to fit the bearing the wrong way round.Its pretty obvious.

Have you asked P&S what qualifications the people who worked on the truck had/have!

Somewhere back in the thread I thought I saw a comment that P&S were blaming the bearing.Did they follow that up with the supplier/manufacturer!I guess not as they clearly knew what answer they were going to get.

Has the bearing got a brand name stamped on it!That may allow us to work out who supplied it to P&S.

DT here this case comes I guess.Tiggles make sure you claim for every possible cost.Phone calls, running about getting advice, travel 2 and from Taupo etcetc etc.As if you dont include it all in your claim you not likely to be able to get any associated costs awarded.

In a lot of cases the DT just awards half so the more you claim the more you might end up with.

Remember you can appeal a DT decision so even if you win at DT they might just appeal you just never know.

supernova2, Nov 9, 9:18pm
Another idea have you tried fair go!They might just run with the emotional story, Mum with lots of kids blah blah blah.Worth a try.

Also Consumer.org they might take it on.

mechnificent, Nov 9, 9:22pm
Agreed Ozz1. the rounded face that is shown there should be facing the pressure plate.

mechnificent, Nov 9, 9:47pm
http://tinafor.gmc.globalmarket.com/products/20117-release-bearing.html http://sell.lulusoso.com/selling-leads/1406597/High-Quality-Auto-Parts-of-Clutch-Release-Bearing.html
http://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx!InfoID=127&ProductID=3081

"It is important that the correct type of release bearing is used for each cover assembly configuration. If a release plate is fitted a carbon thrust bearing should be used. If a release plate is not fitted and the diaphragm spring has straight fingers then a round nose ball type bearing should be used. If a release plate is not fitted and the diaphragm spring has curved fingers then a flat faced ball type bearing should be used. ".

mechnificent, Nov 9, 9:47pm
http://tinafor.gmc.globalmarket.com/products/20117-release-bearing.html http://sell.lulusoso.com/selling-leads/1406597/High-Quality-Auto-Parts-of-Clutch-Release-Bearing.html
http://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx!InfoID=127&ProductID=3081

"It is important that the correct type of release bearing is used for each cover assembly configuration. If a release plate is fitted a carbon thrust bearing should be used. If a release plate is not fitted and the diaphragm spring has straight fingers then a round nose ball type bearing should be used. If a release plate is not fitted and the diaphragm spring has curved fingers then a flat faced ball type bearing should be used. ".

jmma, Nov 9, 10:52pm
OK been giving this some thought again, dam my head hurts (o:
Lets think the correct parts were fitted as they put in a CLUTCH KIT.
Now if a thrust bearing is fitted correctly it will last, lets say 200,000km. In that time it would be used thousands of times, what it is designed for, you can push the clutch in at any speed, if you are doing 3,000 rpm, then that bearing goes from 0 to 3,000rpm in a very short space of time. When I have changed, a thrust brg, there is never any sign of heat as if fitted correctly, because of there design, they can handle all this loading and spinning.
Now in this case, keeping in mind it only did approx 500kms, if it was fitted wrong way around, it would not be thrusting onto the ball race and generate heat. Each time the clutch was used, because it was not contacting the hardened side, a little bit of wear and heat would happen. Eventually it would as in this case, wear through and grab. This would cause the whole brg to turn, this then would cause the carrier to turn, knocking it out of connection with the fork and that causing it to spit out the fork.
Then when clutch depressed, there being no pressure, so the pedal goes flop.
How does Jazz write all his long posts, I'm tired now (o:

snoopy221, Nov 9, 11:19pm
My presumption/ (Assumption-yeah inoe) is the carrier in this case has a front nose specific diameter as a press fit to the bearing centre .
With as always a **LIP**

Respectivley a reversed bearing with no *wear face* could allow a bearing failure as shown .
And at failure point allow the centre of the bearingand the carrier to push through the bearing outer.

Only takes an inch or so between the lip on the carrier and the fork

[Thus-!Fork not sitting right!]
refer post number #233

And realise we tlkn TRUCK ERE

Not late model F W D jappa.
Think more back to pressing a new bearing on the carrier of an old holden.

But hey when these fullas are stoopid nuff to give back such a bearing.

End of the day it's a 2 piece bearing- NOW-so what else would it do in operation

snoopy221, Nov 9, 11:25pm
Eventually it would as in this case, wear through and grab. This would cause the whole brg to turn, this then would cause the carrier to turn, knocking it out of connection with the fork and that causing it to spit out the fork.
Then when clutch depressed, there being no pressure, so the pedal goes flop.
How does Jazz write all his long posts, I'm tired now (o:

Edited by jmma at 5:53 pm, Sat 10 Nov

Quotejmma (1796 )5:52 pm, Sat 10 Nov #245

Think more about the balls being worn/flattenned-reduced in diameter and the centre popping through.K
[Oh and look at the piccys-they do indeedy do show JUST THAT Scenario]

And ya won't getzz alll tuckered oot tryn ta post like jazz.
Or buy a multipla.
L O L

tiggles2, Nov 9, 11:58pm
hmm - evening everyone - just going to sort some pictures - before I post anything else - the piston (rod thing) that comes out of the slave is it smooth shinny so it slides or threaded so a nut can be wound on it

skin1235, Nov 10, 12:01am
both, often they have a smooth shank with a threaded end for as you guessed a nut to adjust the freeplay

skin1235, Nov 10, 12:12am
you did well with the posting of the pics tiggles, can I suggest it may help make it clearer if you were to retake those photos - on a bench in strong daylight
I'd like to see better pics of the larger piece with the jagged edges, both sides, with better light, the rounded edge appears very dark which could be blu-ing or could be night photography or both

am thinking this one will be going a lot further than a simple meeting and then resolution
regardless in the right or wrong way ( bearing) the pressure plate fingers will have taken a hammer to rip that apart (* and thats the only thing that could have ripped it apart) yet they did not replace it, they replaced it perhaps in the first invoice in the clutch kit, the bearing ripped apart after that though, but we still don't have confirmation of what that kit comprised of
I said regardless, from what I can see in the photos it has a completely untouched pressure face ( try running a hacksaw across that and it would just slide - not cut - if perchance it is actually the pressed tin backer we can see it would cut quite quickly, and be very easy to scratch - even with a sharp knife)

snoopy221, Nov 10, 12:13am
Interesting question
Have they supplied you with a second hand long pushrod-and-expect you to believe it is a slave cylnder!

tiggles2, Nov 10, 12:17am
ok - when sorted pictures you can see - the thread goes into the slave.

tiggles2, Nov 10, 12:19am
taking more pictures now with the video camera as better definition BBS :)

tiggles2, Nov 10, 1:29am
Just another question while I make pictures small enough for TM but clear enough to see
Drive shaft bolts - one replaced - is on opposite direction to other three is silver shinny code SFC 8.8
Is this right!
Same sort of bolt used to bolt gear box to engine bit

tiggles2, Nov 10, 1:31am
did not see post mechnificent - looks much the same
working on pictures - TM keeps saying to big grr

snoopy221, Nov 10, 1:36am
/\ go -look
One picture= 1000 words.

jmma, Nov 10, 2:06am
Should be a return spring from slave cyl to fork for adjustable clutch, you can see the hole in the end of the fork for the spring.

jmma, Nov 10, 2:19am
Snap snoopy

snoopy221, Nov 10, 2:30am
tiggles-go-look-right click-save to your comp-enlarge and look atit closely.
READ what i wrote then comment.

But hey when these fullas are stoopid nuff to give back such a bearing.

End of the day it's a 2 piece bearing- NOW-so what else would it do in operation

PICTURE.

tiggles2, Nov 10, 2:39am
ok snoopy :) - blonde moment (and no I am not blonde.)
Yes it would have been a one piece bearing as there is no way the small ring would have come out of the middle if all the balls in cage thing had not heated up and self welded spitting out the middle or leaving it behind to what ever it was pushed into / had sitting on it - warmer.!

snoopy221, Nov 10, 2:43am
Look-leave the long winded explanations to me K

Tiggles said.If they fitted it the RIGHT WAY AROUND,

snoopy221, Nov 10, 2:45am
Tiggles said-This IS the side that goes TO.
The pressure plate