Have you been ticketed for being in the Transit lane on Onewa Road (Birkenhead through Northcote to Auckland Motorway) recently? If you have then let us know on here. We believe the methods, techniques and evidential soundness used by Auckland Transport to catch alleged infringements is fragile to say the least.
kazbanz,
Feb 22, 4:28pm
Really? you mean the drivers of single occupant vehicles who jump the line by driving in the lane clearly designated for trucks and multi occupant vehicles.? Sorry but you either were or you weren't driving a car on your own in a e clearly marked roadway for trucks/multi occupant use
gedo1,
Feb 22, 4:38pm
Kabanz. yer a good bloke and I usually respect your comments in here. But I suggest you re-read the original post we made. I will add that we are being asked to act on behalf of someone who used the Transit lane having dropped one child off at a local school, then heading off to drop off the two other pre-school children - thus having three occupants in their vehicle (driver as well as the 2 kids, of course LOL!) The methods used by the fellows for Auckland Transport are very fragile. We know. we've seen it. Thanks
tamarillo,
Feb 22, 4:40pm
I'm confused, what were they ticketed for then?
doggitt,
Feb 22, 4:41pm
What are the methods you think are fragile?
gedo1,
Feb 22, 4:54pm
Exactly! I hope you realise how pertinent your comment is!
gedo1,
Feb 22, 4:54pm
Fair enough! You have all taught me a lesson about the use of language on Trademe MB. The first thing is that many people don't really read the post before they respond. But anyway second thing is to give every detail and see if that gets read first. Let's clarify - the client had three children in their vehicle at the start of the lane. That's four including the driver. One child was dropped off at a primary school down the Onewa Road transit lane, leaving three occupants. They were pinged after that. We, and our client, do not condone the use of the Transit lanes by vehicles that do not meet the signed criteria. Onewa Road transit lane is not solely a Bus Lane as such, and nor is it a "truck lane" - note this, trucks must have the required number of human occupants. Hope that helps. We are seeking input from those persons who have used the Transit lane (in their opinion legitimately) and who have been ticketed. Be helpful please. Thanks in advance
gedo1,
Feb 22, 5:13pm
Yes we do have a similar post in General - we wanted to reach as many users of the Onewa Road Transit lane as possible so we have copied information between that forum and this. My apologies for just asking for anyone who had been ticketed for using the Onewa Road Transit lane. We had no intention of it being a media report. however. Haven't had any one reply to that yet, but the other input has been amusing and in some cases helpful. They use footage from two video cameras operated by one "officer". We Have viewed our clients' copy from disclosure and more than five of us in the office can make no sense out of what we see. nor can we understand the so called mumbling verbal comments made on the footage. We KNOW our clients always take their three children to first drop off one at the primary school and then the remaining two to a child care centre not too far away.
daryl14,
Feb 22, 5:20pm
Perhaps the arguement is that you are carrying children which is a private action that benefits one person. Whereas the intention of the lane is that you carry multiple adults to their productive day jobs? I'm just spit ballin' here.
smac,
Feb 22, 5:24pm
For those of us who only head north when beaten into doing so with a stick - what is the actual published rule for use of the lane? Is it a certain number of occupants, or is it the use of the vehicle?
gedo1,
Feb 22, 5:35pm
Both.
smac,
Feb 22, 5:47pm
Go on, give us a clue. or are we playing "I know but won't tell you" again?
gmphil,
Feb 22, 6:29pm
I don't no much about this and wish u would speak a bit clearer in just spell out . have heard a story of a sole occupant ticket for using this lane at an intersection great south road . wrote in an got off as the style minivan 12 seater he was driving was actually registered as an Omni bus !
kazbanz,
Feb 22, 6:39pm
Its a fairly easy straight bit of road which is the cause of many nightmares. The INTENTIONS were simply brilliant. But a few issues were not well thought out. The idea is that if you are on your daily commute on your own you must use the right lane. If however you have two or more passengers in the vehicle (not including the driver) and/or you are a bus then you can use the left lane or the right lane. All good ideas to reduce congestion on a busy feeder road.Encourage carpooling etc. But then arrogant people decided the left lane was empty so they would zip down it and get to the front of the long lines of traffic. So people started getting fined for using the left lane if a solo occupant vehicle. BUT --unlike a motorway you have sideroads people pull out of and have to merge with the in theory 50km/h traffic and have just 40m or 50m to do so or ping. Then theres the people who want to turn into side streets and again have just 40m to change lanes and slow to turn left--with no indication where the 40m starts. MY issue is I used to commute down there and lots of people were deliberately zooming down the left lane. The reason it sticks in my mind is that there was a push for motorcycles to be allowed to use the left lane
gmphil,
Feb 22, 6:45pm
same thing that happens between green lane in Papakura people are jumping into the on and off ramp feeders goin to the bitter end then indicating at the last minute to et back in cause the back feed we are experiencing on the motoways now
smac,
Feb 22, 7:02pm
Righto, so it's kinda like a bus lane without there being room for a bus lane so they did it half arse. They tried the same thing at Mana north of Welly then realised it wasn't workable. Partly because they forgot to give the local authority the mandate to issue moving vehicle offences, and partly because detection/enforcement is just too damn hard.
SO how do they do the detection bit? In the OP's case it sounds simply like they couldn't see the kids?
Given the comments frequently made on here about Aucklander's following distances and letting people into a queue, I can imagine just how successful having 40m to merge would be!
quickbuck,
Feb 22, 8:00pm
Nail on the head you have hit, I reckon.
kazbanz,
Feb 22, 9:30pm
Smac--sorta /kinda. Its a two lane road in both directions.Its got a transit lane towards the motorway/harbour bridge from 7.30-9.30 am (don't quote me on the times) then from 4.00pm to 6.00pm its got a transit lane from the motorway up Onewa road. Don't get me wrong its a fantastic concept. The issues are 1) allowing sufficient room to move to the left lane. Slow,indicate and make a left turn into a side street with a bus up ya chuff doing 50km/h 2)Correct and accurate enforcement of the distance when there is no line to say where you can legally move over 3)correct enforcement method for the 3 people or more rule
socram,
Feb 22, 10:26pm
It is in fact from 6:30am heading down and I for one have never, ever been in a position to car pool, given that I have been self employed since 1987; have/had a client base that is nationwide, with different destinations each day and also have run several two seaters.
Public transport is no use either, as to get to several clients by 7:15am, I'd have to leave the night before.
The methodology as pointed out by the OP, is that it is easy to get a ticket when you do in fact have three people in the car, especially children. The signage is 'three people in the car' - no age or size limits.
Typically Auckland, they have built many 100's of new houses in the catchment area, whilst at the same, not only restricting the flow of traffic with a so called high density lane down Onewa, but unlike almost everywhere else, the requirement is 3 PAX and not two.
Only 40% of people crossing the Harbour Bridge south, go to the CBD, meaning the majority are NOT going to the CBD, which is of course where ALL the public transport goes.
The concept for Onewa Rd is fine - in theory, but it fails miserably in execution. Certainly just after 6:30am, the transit lane is empty; there are virtually no buses; the motorway now flows freely, thanks to the Vic Park improvements - but traffic is backed right up Onewa Rd and getting worse every year.
Sorry OP, I haven't ever had a ticket and usually head down before 6:30am.
gedo1,
Feb 22, 10:28pm
No it's not a bit like a bus lane. With a bus lane you are either a bus or you are not, With a transit lane certain classes of vehicle may use it subject to time and circumstances. I have now heard learned from some of the original designers and operators of the Onewa Transit lane (the first such in NZ, it seems) how it was intended and how it was "policed" back then. An interesting history - did you know it won an international traffic award? The one in Mana was eventually changed (not necessarily for the reasons you claim) but the Onewa Road one has not changed since its introduction. Out of the woodwork information arrives.
gedo1,
Feb 22, 10:39pm
Apparently the existing "detector" (This is a single "officer") operates two video cameras. One camera takes footage of an approaching vehicle in the lane. The other (and this is the crucial bit) points straight across Onewa Road at right angles and takes footage of the car as it passes through that camera's field of vision. I leave you to imagine what can be seen of occupants in a vehicle travelling at up to 50km/h by that camera. Then imagine how much can be seen when the vehicle's windows are tinted as so many are these days. Yet this is what they use, in court, to "prove" the number of occupants. The voice comment on the first camera (apparently by the "officer") are quite unintelligible in the one we have from our client and thus will be useless for the council in court.
johotech,
Feb 22, 10:43pm
It is a T3, that means that vehicles with 3 or more occupants, buses, cyclists and motorcyclists are allowed to utilise the lane.
smac,
Feb 22, 10:43pm
gedo1 if you can't, on a basic level, even agree that a bus lane is kinda like a transit lane (in purpose, if not usage rules) then I wish you the best of luck gathering examples to back your claim, you're gonna need it! Yes I know the law is a pedantic master but when you talk to people, it's best to use actual language :) If you think my descriptions is not close enough to be of use to the conversation, you could always, I dunno, offer up the actual info I asked for? You're asking for info to back your claim, but only want to offer up a half story as bait. Good luck.
gedo1,
Feb 22, 10:51pm
Thanks for your input smac. Succinctly we were simply asking for anyone who had received an infringement notice for travelling in the Onewa Road transit lane to let us know. Any one who had received such a notice would know they had got it and would not need any more information to confirm that fact. Appreciate what you were trying to do and that it was well-intended.
gedo1,
Feb 22, 10:54pm
Additionally we were not asking for information to back up our claim - we already have that from our client's own experience. Having learned how the Transit lane used to be "policed" and how it is now since the integrated city took over we believe there is a travesty occurring and that perhaps others who have been pinged, just like our client, may have a case for dismissal.
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