Given that it most cases the chassis number is stamped into the firewall and not just a popriveted plate anymore its not going to be very easy to swap the numbers over in such a way that its not going to be obvious. Its been suggested that the "mix and match" car would have to be revinned. I ask why that would be as both previous cars have had vin issued so really all you are asking to do is replace parts due to repair. Ah maybe its a case of getting a repair cert to show the parts have been replaced. Can you have a vin tag that has a different number from the factory chassis number? Anyone know? How do you get on with a NZ new vehicle which has no NZTA Vin tag? How do the vintage resto people do it? There must be lots of cases where part bodies have been swapped. At what point does it mean that you have swapped to many bits so you need revin? How complete does a vehicle have to be to get a vintag issued? Can you rock up with a bare body shell and ask for a vin (Vehicle identification number)?
pre 94 as in date is somewhere in aug 94 does not need a vin attached and the last (xxx) digits of the vin are the last (xxx) digits of the chassis number
supernova2 Ya slippin pal [must catch up some time in person when i'm in roto]
mrfxit,
Jul 23, 8:48am
Even though the repair is the same as those that the crooks do, having receipts & it documented by VTNZ, are the parts that the crooks wouldn't do.
mrfxit,
Jul 23, 8:51am
The legal problem is no official documentation to verify that the original bike & replacement parts combination are legit
trogedon,
Jul 23, 9:38am
No one needs to know that its not the original frame. I have the original ownership papers with the numbers.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 10:00am
And again --Its a victimless crime. You changed the identity of the frame you bought.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 10:10am
There are very good reasons why you aren't allowed to do what the OP is suggesting. -a couple of senarios. 1) I buy a well smashed up HSV locally with live rego. then I buy an identical well n truly flood damaged same car in Auzzie Swap all the identity over and swap the interior from the kiwi car into the auzzie one. bingo a "legit " car has been reborn. -sure all the electronics are likely stuffed but not my problem. 2)im running a "legit" wrecking yard and buy stuff at the gate. Buy a well smashed WRX for example--Go out and steal a good one -swap the identity and Bingo. Those reasons ^^^^^ are why there is a blanket rule that it cannot be done.
ally-oop,
Jul 23, 10:48am
True enough, however what the O.P has described is a harmless scenario which gets swept up in the broad brush of the technicality of the law. But yeah, as you say, it's illegal nonetheless (albeit outside of the scenario/s that the law was established to prevent).
mrfxit,
Jul 23, 10:51am
Exactly As compensation for that broad brush law, we got lumbered with the cert process thats also gone too far in many area's.
BUT, to be fair, we did need some form of legal control for a lot of mods done.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 11:20am
Ok -JUST for the sake of this discussion lets have a look at the OP's scenario. 1 car all smashed up/rusted out but totally legal to be on the road. -1 car that has been deregistered but looks to be ok. Aren't fairly loud alarm bells ringing with the idea of swapping tags" ? (lets assume its legal to do so for a second) Being deregistered the car either was derego'd deliberately because it was unroadworthy OR its been standing for a heck of a long time. In either case wouldn't anyone else out there sharing the road with this vehicle want to be certain it is in roadworthy condition? far more indepth testing that just a WOF. Yes Im certain there are some truly amazing car builders out there that as a matter of course would be going through the running gear of a car to be sure it all works fine. That's not the scenario the OP outlines though is it ? Again this is just for the sake of discussion. -But as a dealer ---its the stuff of nightmares. --The buck stops with the dealer in most cases.It doesn't pass back to the owner as many as three ago that did the swap.
fungles,
Jul 23, 12:59pm
If the vehicle was dereged for unroadworthyness, this has nothing to do with any numbering , and will be deemed unroadworthy again with a recheck despite being renumbered , unless it has been repaired. meantime. Standing for a heck of a long time in itself is not a safety issue either, the WOF people will easily pick up frozen wheel cylinders or perished rubber, again, nothing to do with numbers on a firewall. The car will be bought/sold/checked on its own merits, despite the chassis number or plate. Lets be realistic. Noone can check that any car has the correct chassis number, noone even bothers to do so.or even suspects its necessary to even attempt to do so. You would need the old car to somehow compare at least, two cars with the same chassis numbers would be a very good indicator here, but then, which one is bogus and how can you tell?
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 1:44pm
fungles-why will that happen? ie the checking you suggest? A WOF takes 20 minutes. Its not a proper /decent inspection of a vehicle that's been off the road for possibly years.
mrfxit,
Jul 23, 1:53pm
I personally had that issue many years ago. 2 brothers had the same car but in different colors & engine size (same type engine 1.6 ltr/ 2ltr) The brother with the 2ltr car wrote his off & swapped plates/ tags with the 1.6ltr model which was the only 1 insured, so he could claim it had been pinched & written off, then sell the 1.6ltr model with 2ltr tags/plates to sell that for a higher price then what the 1.6ltr would have normally gotten.
Real hard case how it all come out, because the brothers had sold the ok car to my boss/ my boss sold it to me/ about 4 weeks later my boss borrowed "my" car & later that day come back to the yard with the cops behind him.
Thats when the whole story come out.
Thankfully, I got to keep the car & the bothers got done for fraud, but it took about 6 months to confirm the ownership to me. Boss got away clean as well.
fungles,
Jul 23, 2:42pm
Hi Kazbanz, why would a car in storage become automatically unsafe? The WOF process is flawed, but is all we have to take a "snapshot" of a cars safety in time. As pointed out many times, it is valid for only a few days when potentially the car could then become unsafe, tyres, minor accident damage etc. and perhaps remain that way for another 6 months. The WOF people do have mileage from one check to the next, Im sure if a car had done zero miles between the last WOF check and today, and if that was a likely issue, they would check the vehicle accordingly. one would certainly hope so. Its just I have no time for regulations that dont work, some bugger was paid to invent this flawed legislation, and we as consumers are forced to pay, at the same time "comforted" by being told it works, when clearly it does not. I have many personal real world examples demonstrating this. . as for police involvement, its down to simple economics, or as the agencies would say, "not in the public interest to pursue it further" All vehicles, genuine or not will always check out fine on any land transport database, else they would not be listed on there, its purely a numbers thing, and is the only definitive source we have to work with.
dublo,
Jul 23, 2:51pm
And don't get me started on the year 2000 cut-off date from 6-month to 12-month WoFs. Why didn't they just make it 10 years from date of first registration? Or 5 years? We see a lot of early 2000s wrecks on the road with bald tyres, failed lamps etc and running on 11 month old WoFs.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 3:15pm
fungles--keep in mind this is just for sake of discussion :-) A car that has been in "storage" In my experience has been put there for a very good reason. accident damage or mechanical issues etc. theres the odd car that's been sitting in a shed for many years. in each case I wouldn't want that car to be back on the road with the superficial inspection a WOF affords. The inspection process for compliance is a lot more robust with reasonably invasive inp section procedures.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 3:20pm
As far as im concerned that theory should apply across the board. Not just to WOF's but also to fresh imports. A rolling year limit at 10 years old would save a heap or crazy legislation
fungles,
Jul 23, 3:22pm
My favourite is LPG cylinders and expiry dates. The gas experts tell me its a necessary proceedure to have them recertified every 10 years, they are at high pressure and suffer internal corrosion.which could cause a potential explosion. Now, I have cut open literally hundreds of cylinders, they make handy parts containers, potbelly and oil burner stoves and even supply the bands for widening car rims. Not once have I seen internal corrosion , impossible to occur with an inert gas and no oxygen. The static pressure on a cold day is around 4 psi, increasing to 15 psi on a hot day, still dangerous, but less than the average car tyre. The"certification" process seems to involve little more than a quick underwater pressure and bubble test, and a new gas valve . all up cost of $85. I replace my own valve when needed, and simply restamp the date code on the bottle, total saving here of $65., What with cars, motorbikes and gas bottles, my little stamping kit has saved me thousands
fungles,
Jul 23, 3:30pm
Kaz, you could very well be correct. you have far more knowlege of cars than I do, I undertand you deal in these things. I can only speak of my personal experiences. My 1963 vauxhall for instance spends most of its life buried for long periods under mountains of junk in my shed, and with a quick wipedown, air in the tyres, shes good to go. Usually the brakes need messing with, but that is all.
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 5:35pm
sall good dude-that's why I said--"for the sake of discussion' -nothing serious
kazbanz,
Jul 23, 5:43pm
On this subject. Many years ago I got caught in the middle of a total complete and utter snaffoo. Actually working for the same company we now own so at least 15 years ago. I traded in a 1980's or early 90's Nissan Sunny. Wrote out the numbers from the car on the VOSA and thought nothing of it. Boss rings me on my day off going ballistic. Chassis number was all wrong. Off back to work and read him the chassis number off the car. Nope not the right number long and short of it. It was originally a local government vehicle and was registered the same time as three others. Wrong plates were put on every one of them from day 1. for over 10 years the cars had all been getting WOF's with the wrong plates/chassis numbers. It took a fair bit to untangle.
marte,
Jul 24, 12:45am
I didn't get to the AA today, probably Wednesday now. But, I'm getting the impression I might have to 'sell' the car back to the guy I got it off, he would then get set of new standard number plates & keep his personalised plates, then 'sell' back to me. By 'sell' I just mean 'change the ownership' of the car.
Back to the swapping body tags. OK, I know that it happens quite often, people have, say a CF Bedford that's been deregistered, they find a rusted out wreck which still has plates on hold & cuts the body # out & fits it to their CF Bedford & attaches the plates & drives it out & gets a WOF for it. No theft involved at all. Only using the CF Bedford as a example as I did have a good one that had been deregistered by accident when the old owner went to Aussie & NZ introduced the idea of putting plates 'on hold' or 'lapsing them' if you don't.
My situation I have a car '96, with bad gearbox, good motor & scrapes all down the sides where somebody (it looks like) towed it thru a doorway a inch narrower than the car. I can use its engine in another car I have, and the rests spare parts. BUT, its got current plates on hold. AND, last week I find a identical car, immaculate condition, same year, model & options, with lapsed plates, which happened by accident. And I can buy it. So, everything legitimate, nobody's telling lies or intends to defraud anybody at all. I'd just be helping somebody who cannot sell the car, get a better price for it. If I pull my car apart I will have to turn the plates in at some point. Might as well make use of them somehow.
fungles,
Jul 24, 1:03pm
Marte, ALWAYS keep the plates when disposing of a vehicle, just put them on hold, They are a saleable item for reasons you have described above. Keep a record of the ID tags and make/colour of the car they were removed from for future reference.
esky-tastic,
Jul 24, 1:23pm
Regardless of the morality of this idea it is illegal simply because car ‘ringers’ use this method to get stolen cars ( maybe even yours) back out on the market - mostly high end $$ cars but I know of older stolen jap cars having it done to them. Do as you will but just be aware it ain’t legal. And don’t forget to swap the rear window with the vin and/or number plate number on it ;-)
fungles,
Jul 24, 1:27pm
Not necessary, second hand window replacements happen all the time, thus mixing up the numbers anyway, same as engine replacements mix up engine numbers. its very easy to overthink this.
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