Lol good news Intrade ?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/443046/new-car-availability-hits-low-point-due-to-computer-chip-shortages

I have to agree to some extent that the over reliance on computerised sensors and such in todays cars is not necessarily a good thing. Yeah I understand it's helped with safety features and yeah I know it helps with emissions controls but when your car wont start or if it does will only run in limp mode, (if you're lucky), because some idiotic sensor wont work properly then that's not ideal.

In the 'old days' cars had three major systems, Electrical, Mechancal, Fuel. If the vehicle wouldn't run you could guarantee it was one of those and it wasn't too hard to diagnose. Now ? Totally different story requiring expensive and time consuming diagnostics with computer driven diagnostic machines talking to the onboard computers and even then the mechanic, (sorry - technician), may say "Well it *might be this - or it might be that*. " I realise there are many advantages to technologically advanced, computerised cars but there are also disadvantages. Perhaps they'll go back to simpler ? Not likely.

The thing is the new car buyer wants all the bells and whistles and so long as the car is under warranty doesn’t care about the longevity of these components of how complicated they are.
Often it has ben asked on here, where can I buy a used manual no frills very basic car. Basically you can’t because no (or so few) new car buyers would purchase such a thing. Yes they exist overseas because those bells and whistles attract more tax in some markets but not here in New Zealand.
All that being said, I distinctly remember on this forum for the past 20 years posters commenting how all these computers are only going to give grief in the future, whereas the reality is so often they are the most reliable component in the car.

Cars are more reliable per km than ever before, the unreliable factor is the owner /driver.

So the suggestion here is that the development and evolution of the automobile should have stopped around the 1990’s?
Henry Ford would be turning in his grave!

No. The suggestion is that the great reliance on computer control systems hasn't necessarily been a boon.

Actually it has been a boon, from whatever angle you look at it. Reliability, economy and ease use are easy things to take for granted when you live with them daily. A quick time machine trip would I suspect have you hitting the return button asap in that respect.

So there is a chip shortage now, there was a gas shortage not so long ago, remember carless days ?

There is no shortage of chips These chips are in your laptops you all did buy during lockdown and other electronics. They are the same chips and fail the same way in cars . The shortage was made by the car makers telling we don't need chips They got sold, and the Car makers have to wait their turn now

Yeah, nah. the worst electric problems I have experinced have been in a 1980s Ford laser. Intermittent sudden power failure while driving, eventually traced to ignition module. Intermittent absolutely zero response to turning the ignition, eventually traced to starter solenoid. All of the cars with OBD systems have been fine. All of the cars with lucas electrics from the pre-computer age have had their problems, similar to the Laser.

I understand my Falcon had a solid state temp sensor in the cylinder head, so that even if you had a coolant failure the engine would put itself to sleep before it cooked itself. That's pretty clever!

(I had an actual coolant failure in a Triumph 2.5PI once, blasted all the way down the southern motorway and over the bombay hill with the thermostat seized shut. Finally got hot near gordonton. removed thermostat, replaced thermostat housing, carried on, no damage, no problem! They don't make engines like that any more. (The PI drank more petrol than the Falcon mind you. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deB1WTLOVns
watch this

Sorry, I don’t buy any of this bullshit.
I love my two year old car with all the bells and whistles and comfort and would never ever consider buying some old POS just because some backyard grease monkey harbours some conspiracy theory.
Say what you like but your 1990’s old dunga is more likely to be stuck on the side of the highway than my 2019 new model.

RE 10 yes if the 90s is neglected. If its serviced it won't fail but yours will after 6 years end of live by design. If you buy a new one before then you can claim victory just don't tell anyone how much money you lost selling it for a new one again

Meh!

OK. Tsunami of truth coming. Despite the greatly enhanced performance, economy, safety and comfort and techy stuff, modern cars still only have those three basic systems with respect to making it start and run, with the addition of immobilisation as the fourth where it applies. Its how they work thats improved. The ignition system on a modern car effectively has only four components, a car 50 years ago had at least seven or eight all of which were more wear and fail prone and would at intervals require adjusting or replacing during service or separately as part of a Tune Up process which would have to be completed every 20k kms at the absolute outside. No such process is necessary now providing service is done completely and correctly. The chances of your modern car failing to go one day completely at random and without warning is extremely slim. Cars are of course still highly reliant on its battery to perform correctly but that has always been the case unless by chance it had provision for a crank handle., for the most part a sudden failure causing complete dysfunctionality can be put down to operator failure, be it maintenance, physically damaged smart keys, attempting to jump start the thing backwards, cooked engine, dirty or loose battery terminals run out of fuel etc. If by chance it does happen to you, get the right scan tool and operator involved and it should be known within 10 minutes what system has failed and what the likely culprit is, and where to focus further checks. If its a known problem and/or the operator is trained in the model the process could be even quicker. All this is before theyve even touched a tool box. Sounds pretty good in theory huh?
The big failure with this overall greatly improved situation for the user is people. We have long had a situation where the entire education system, vehicle dealership and garage owners and the public in general fails to attract, retain and encourage the right people in a maintenance and repair role in the motor industry, and does not invest in them properly, train or pay them properly, or even offer them basic professional respect. In their view the ideal candidates are stupid, dyslexic, have other learning issues or otherwise not considered good enough for more advanced tertiary study. All of these groups believe that costs associated with the continued reliable running of their,by historic standards high tech vehicle or support business, should be absolutely minimal and not worth anywhere near what the services of other trades people associated with property or medical professionals etc are worth, this is despite obviously fewer fundamental technological changes happening over the same period in these fields. Until this attitude changes, amazingly enough, nothing else will change.
So, do you want an old car for everyday use that is uncomfortable, slow, thirsty, likely to kill you in a crash, likely to rust, requires very frequent service and tuning, requires more driver involvement/physical strength to operate as per 50 years ago or something that is smarter and high tech which is absolutely improved in every area in terms of its reliability and purpose as transport but in the event when something major goes wrong requires specialist intervention? Motoring costs.

I think you need look no further than the attempt to sell Lada vehicles in NZ 30 odd years ago for confirmation of that theory!

Have read that twice. Cant disagree with any of it
Great post franc.

Sorry but i have proved this with my race motors, with it now being injected and the fuel and spark tuned by the computer, I make more power and are more reliable than the dizzy carb guys, the computer maps every rpm and matches the whole package in milliseconds and ya old tech just can't do that to this level and I have the option of looking at tuning of the engine after the race and can even have it turned while racing by radio from the pits.
whats more you have the added protection of knock sensing and boost enrichments for the blown and turbo motors, features like automatic rev limiting, temp shut down and I even have a real time O2 sensor gauge to look at while racing.

just have it serviced when you are supposed to and you wont have a problem, At that service the computed is pumped with the latest software from the factory and 80 % of the problems will be solved by the computer as you drive along, apart from a very rear fault in a sensor, its happy trails

Have had that ' very rare' fault with a sensor. Or it might have been with the ECU, or it could have been something else.

Was quoted $900 to replace said sensor. Told that *might* be the problem. After that the cost went up quite a lot more for further diagnostic and *repairs*.

I said NO. The car was worth $4k. Max. So it got sold to a wrecker for $150. And I bought another car.

And that was a 2001 model with minimal onboatd technology.

Most cars from the early 90s onwards have completely computer controlled engines.

Well, apparently every vehicle for sale currently on Trademe that is beyond 6 years old is now at “end of life”.
Yet a well respected second hand car dealer will no doubt tell us any 1990s trade-in to be “end of life”.
Oh dear, what are we to do?

#7
Declares there is no shortage of chips then goes on to explain why there is a shortage of chips.

Youd get more intelligent insight from a log.

And no the chips aren't the same as in your laptop, they use the same materials and facilities to manufacture but they aren't the same parts. Clueless.

All still apply (or could apply) to computer controlled cars.

Of course it’s more likely - it’s up to almost 30 years older with subsequent 30 years of wear and tear.

Excellent post franc123, good insight and thinking, yea ronaldo8, 7 watching tooo many videos and not enough thinking.

Franc nails it for sure.