Had an altercation yesterday that escalated. Person "A" traveling on a fairly busy state highway and pulled over to the left hand shoulder to wait till it was clear to turn right, Person "B" travelling in same direction to make the same turn into the driveway but when he arrives at the driveway there is a gap in the oncoming traffic he simply makes the right turn. Who had the right of way here? What happened was that both "A" and "B" made the turn at the same and it turned to custard.
tweake,
Oct 1, 9:57pm
i'm no pro and certainly rusty. however i say B has right of way as they are on the road. car A has to give way to car B to get on the road before they can turn.
pulling over to the shoulder to do a right hand turn is a BS rule, its only an option not a requirement and as many roads do not have a car width shoulder to safely park on, its actually more risky.
i have seen plenty of times where someone pulls over on the left to turn right and get stuck there due to the traffic as they have to give way to both lanes of traffic and those turning.
lyl_guy,
Oct 1, 9:59pm
No pro either - but A should have waited for the clear way - how did he/she not see B? So if there was an accident in that scenario, I think A was in the wrong.
snork28,
Oct 1, 10:01pm
A didn:t check that way was clear and collided with B i would say.
snork28,
Oct 1, 10:04pm
almost sounds as though A was assuming B would let him go first.
superdave0_13,
Oct 1, 10:16pm
Thankfully I was person B on this one. He ended up getting into the driveway in front of me, blocked it then jumped out and went bananas leaving me and and another driver trying to pull in exposed to peak hour traffic on state highway 58 in Wellington which Wellington's deadliest. Because I had never come across that situation before I went away thinking it may have been my fault.
socram,
Oct 1, 10:20pm
'A' at fault and I'm no pro either.
If 'A' pulls off the road, then 'A's responsibility to make sure it is clear and safe to rejoin it. No different from joining from a side road.
If 'B', was going to let 'A' go first, then they'd make it perfectly clear somehow - probably by coming to a standstill and maybe waving or flashing the lights, but even that is frowned upon by the police.
richardmayes,
Oct 1, 11:18pm
That's. unique.
A should have given way since he wanted to turn into the lane B was already occupying. He obviously felt entitled to go before B since he was already waiting since before B arrived. He did get there first so a gentleman might have let him go first, but from the way the story is described it sounds like it wasn't immediately clear what was going on? Wellington more than most places does operate on a courtesy system with its narrow roads.
People do get very weird and enraged about someone else turning right from the left shoulder though.
I did it once in a place where it seemed very unsafe to wait to turn right from the middle of the road. While I was waiting, another person came along and stopped in the middle of the (100km/h) road with his right indicator on. and gave me a whole lot of attitude for being there doing what i was doing. meanwhile, since his arrival the road was now blocked, and there was a bit of attitude from people getting held up behind also. You can't please everyone. but no cars hit each other so I guess it was a success in the ways that really mattered! There is now a marked right turn lane at that location so it was obviously a recurring issue.
msigg,
Oct 2, 7:09am
B has the right of way, rather obvious. A is off the road. A could be talking on phone/TXT, eating lunch or anything, B is the moving vehicle at the time.
lakeview3,
Oct 2, 7:27am
I agree with everyone else. How was anyone to know why A was parked on the side of the road? Maybe they were on their phone for all anyone would know.
However, was this at one of those dangerous roadside stalls selling free range eggs or similar? I have seen similar incidents and not surprised some people come to grief with their FOMO. There is a certain etiquette to be followed in those cases.
I only stop when I can see no one else it there. If someone is there already, which we could have assumed A was there for the same reason, even if parked in the side of the road, I carry on (which is probably what B should probably have done instead of a ‘drop in’)
trackim,
Oct 2, 7:35am
Another interesting one, that we will see a lot of over the next few months. Agricultural tractors that can rock along at 45kmph pull over to the shoulder to let traffic past, while maintaining their speed, but then just veer back out into the flow when the shoulder narrows? This usually happens in places like approaching a bridge!
allan_mac,
Oct 2, 9:53am
100m clear visibility is required when overtaking another vehicle, over the complete manoeuvre. If you could see the bridge, you shouldn't have started the manoeuvre.
tamarillo,
Oct 2, 9:55am
Road code and courtesy not same thing. Feel that B had right of way as effectively they are free to make the turn whilst A has to give way to them. BUt A May feel that B should have waited and was jumping the queue.
kazbanz,
Oct 2, 10:16am
I get how driver A could see the gap coming up. See from their POV sufficient room before B got there to make the turn.Ie I get how things would look from their POV. Right up till they got out of the car and went nuts. There must be more to this story surely or they wouldn't be so upset. Unless driver B was creating a "melodeous sound to warn other drivers" as A turned across their bows.
lyl_guy,
Oct 2, 10:26am
I actually can't see how A would think it was safe to turn in front of B? Even if B was slowing down considerably, with indicator on, surely A could see there was a huge risk in darting across the road in front of him. the kind of risk that can end up fatal.
kazbanz,
Oct 2, 10:40am
Im NOT saying that person A was correct in their perception. THAT wasn't my point. My point being it clearly WAS their perception. what im not getting is why they felt the need then to stop and berate driver B
shakespeare6,
Oct 2, 11:42am
A was at fault. He pulled off the road and should have checked then waited till it was safe and clear to turn back on the road and cut across the lanes. Simple really
msigg,
Oct 2, 12:52pm
Well we all know why A was angry, because B got the parking spot that A wanted and b was able to buy the last icecream.
richardmayes,
Oct 2, 12:55pm
A felt that there was an obvious queue to turn right happening, and he felt that B jumped the queue.
kazbanz,
Oct 2, 12:56pm
Nope--B wasn't able to get into the driveway to get to the ice cream. A had the driveway blocked. Confusion
tweake,
Oct 2, 5:16pm
no different to overtaking a cyclist or truck. to overtake means going over the centre line so it makes no difference if you go over by a little or use the entire other lane. if no ones coming because you have crossed the centre line then who cares if the shoulder narrows.
the only time its ever a problem is when people are overtaking into oncoming traffic and there is only one person at fault there.
tweake,
Oct 2, 5:19pm
or that B was even turning into that driveway and not the next one.
lakeview3,
Oct 2, 5:33pm
Let’s face it, B was suffering a major case of FOMO. I have seen this kind of behaviour at avocado stalls. To turn right off a major highway in such a manner when there is a car already to the left is a dangerous manoeuvre and lots of accidents have been caused by this sort of driving.
I just wanna know why OP had to stop? Was it eggs or avocado?
marte,
Oct 2, 6:08pm
Agree, 'A' has to indicate for at least 3 seconds before starting the manoeuvre that gets them out onto the road. Providing that's it's safe to get out onto the road in the first place. Then, once out on the road and stabilised, 'A' then has to indicate for at least 3 seconds their intention to turn right into the driveway, then, once it's safe again to turn right, then turn right & move into the driveway.
'A' has to make 3 seperate manoeuvres, 2 of them are 'Check, indicate, wait, check & confirm & then make the car move'
All 'B' has to do is 'Check oncoming & parked traffic on the right hand side of the road', indicate & confirm it's safe & manoeuvre. Simply being on a road does not mean that you have to stop for traffic backing out, or driving out, of driveways onto the road or into the side of your car. Even less that it would be your fault if they hit your car, like 'A' did.
bwg11,
Oct 2, 6:23pm
Haven't searched the Road Code but have always thought that in built up areas you indicate a right turn waiting close to the centre line for clear road to make your turn, whereas on the open road you pull over to the left and wait for clear road, then indicate and make your turn. Happy to be proven wrong.
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