Rucs for electric cars nearly here Page 1 / 3

mrfxit, Nov 20, 7:47am

cattleshed, Nov 20, 7:23pm
“Someone has to pay for the road maintenance and upgrades and it should be the people using the roads,” Mr Lucas said in a media statement. "

Right, and so why have these owners not paid from day one Mr. Lucas? There is no doubt that the delay is to encourage as many as possible to go EV and with zero talk of RUC's initially as that would put them off. Hardly honest is it? This is a round the world scenario. Now consistency would mean that the RUC's should be backdated to day one since "people using the roads" are the ones who should pay! I am in full support of user pays!

tony9, Nov 20, 7:24pm
Our exemption expires in December next year.

tony9, Nov 20, 7:27pm
And . "Electric Vehicle Council CEO Behyad Jafari said the proposed tax would act as a disincentive to electric vehicle take-up."

If a Road User Tax of no more than that which applies to ICE's is a disincentive then the EV industry is in big trouble, are they not so much better than ICE powered vehicles anyway?

s_nz, Nov 20, 8:33pm
Why post an Australia specific article?

For NZ, the info you need to know is:

"On 22 September 2016, the RUC exemption for light electric vehicles was extended until 31 December 2021. This saves the average electric vehicle driver approximately NZD$600 per vehicle each year. On 22 September 2016, the RUC exemption for light electric vehicles was extended until 31 December 2021."

It is highly likely that there will be either anouther extension, A complete shake up of the road tax program (perhaps take road tax off petrol and put RUC's on all vehicles, perhaps swap road taxes for out for GPS based road use and congestion charges), or the introduction of a lesser RUC rate for EV's.

The issue with the status quo is that come 1 Jan 2022, A mini electric will be paying three times as much in road tax via RUC's, compared to the petrol tax payed by a Yaris hybrid. The opposite to what we want to encourage as a country. Much better to use our locally produced electricity than largely imported oil.

The other issue is that Plug in hybrids as RUC paying vehicles will become entitled for a refund of the Road user tax portion of any petrol they burn. (same as USA sourced petrol burning RV's over 3500kg today). This will create a heap of paperwork, and will be prone to fraud (Hard to tell if somebody has run mostly from electricity in their PHEV, but claimed petrol tax back as though they had never plugged the car in, and instead used the petrol in other vehicles).

cattleshed, Nov 20, 8:49pm
They are not in big trouble as much as EV owners will be, as much as ICE owners are now or more so into the future. Remember the way to assess a given technology is not the mere concept or claimed fuel savings (fuel savings, how narrow) but there is so much more to consider and one such thing stares all in the face is to consider the existing ICE rout and realise that the same will continue with EV for sure! No doubt it will be 'dressed' differently and disguised by 'save the planet' anthems but let the present reality be a forecast for the future. It isn't hard to see really.

laurelanne, Nov 21, 7:45am
They never had to ban horses to convince people to drive model T Fords. I prefer evolution myself. Some of these new hybrids appear popular. Which of the big car companies are heavily invested in Hydrogen. That is were I hope there is a big break through.

bill-robinson, Nov 21, 8:44am
what is the source of this hydrogen for use in cars.

socram, Nov 21, 9:02am
I see the current EVs (no pun intended) as a stepping stone only, away from fossil fuelled vehicles.

I'm not convinced that overall, they are in any way more environmentally friendly, far from it.

From present day manufacture to their end of life and ultimate disposal, and costs, have to be weighed up against the alternatives.

I see today's EV's as the Betamax vs VHS - and then into digital. When decent alternatives are found (and they will be) today's EV's will be the dinosaurs.

I'd rather stick with a Morris Minor 1000, despite the absymal performance, as the EV's and hybrids we come up against every day locally, are mobile chicanes anyway - or maybe that is just the drivers?

harm_less, Nov 21, 11:59am
Good comment and by extension the eventual implementation of RUCs on EVs should be regarded with apprehension by ICE owners as much, or more so, than EV owners. A distance based RUC system for all vehicles will present a great opportunity for differential taxation rates on various vehicle types including incentivisation of non-fossil fuel vehicles.

gazzat22, Nov 21, 12:48pm
The present system is that the tax on Petrol or ICE vehicles pays for Roads,ACC and General Government revenue unlike EV owners who have a "Free"ride so i dont think as you persist in calling them ICE or Fossil Fuel owners and drivers have too much to fear.The present RUC charges were bought in to replace the Diesel tax system which was being ripped off.My boss and owner of a large trucking company was on the advisory group when RUC,s were introduced.in the mid 1970,s.

harm_less, Nov 21, 1:18pm
RUC rates for various weights of diesel vehicles currently range from 7.6c to 43.5c/km. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/licensing-rego/road-user-charges/ruc-rates-and-transaction-fees/#RUC-rates-for-distance-licences-powered

The amount of damage being caused to many of our roads as a result of the 50 tonne limit is a pretty good reason for increasing the RUC rate for such vehicles, and incentivisation of non-ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles will almost certainly see a 'discount' for EVs over ICE light vehicles. That sounds like a pretty good reason for fossil fueled vehicle owners to regard a rejigging of the RUC charging structure and system with apprehension.

gazzat22, Nov 21, 1:46pm
So you think a 50 tonne electric powered Truck will do less damage than a petrol/diesel powered one.Very strange logic,a bit like if you,ve got an ingrown Toenail. amputate your leg I would say EV owners should be the ones who are apprehensive going on the experience with RUC,s and their regular increases.

gazzat22, Nov 21, 1:50pm
If they are so Cheap to run and are non polluting surely any responsible citizen would not object to paying RUC,s apart from taking the shine of their Halo,s.

harm_less, Nov 21, 2:17pm
I fail to follow your toenail analogy but anyway I implied no differentiation between ICE or EV heavy vehicles but for light vehicles it makes a lot of sense to tax all on a distance based system rather than the petrol price component currently. This also gets around the hybrid anomaly and presents an opportunity to charge them a RUC 'lite' rate along with BEVs. So various RUC rates related to energy source and vehicle weight. It makes real sense and is a lot less of the blunt and disjointed system in place currently.

harm_less, Nov 21, 2:21pm
Based on the info s_nz quoted earlier RUCs for EVs are projected to cost around $600/year. Not a big deal when in a situation like we have with our Leaf where we are saving in the region of $2,000/year in fuel (and minimal maintenance) costs compared to an ICE.

tony9, Nov 21, 3:08pm
The snake oil industry is now moving over to hydrogen.

harm_less, Nov 21, 3:30pm
EVs have an energy supply infrastructure in place by way of the national grid. Hydrogen has no existing supply infrastructure so in addition to the manufacturing hurdles they have ahead of them they also need to put a distribution network into service.

Don't hold your breath over being able to fill your HFC vehicle any time soon.

cattleshed, Nov 21, 4:15pm
Not with computer controlled vehicles. Just scan it or press readout button.

serf407, Nov 21, 5:20pm
Hyundai have their own hydrogen refill station in Auckland using BOC hydrogen from Glenbrook.
Probably would not get approval to have your own hydrogen refill station in your basement in NZ suburbia atm.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/117738145/first-drive-road-test-review-hyundai-nexo#:~:text=Hyundai%20NZ%20has%20its%20own,at%20the%20required%20700%20bar. NZ cannot afford to make too many sub-optimal technology adoption mistakes. Think Telecom XT network etc

Germany is aiming at 130 hydrogen refill stations by the end of 2020.
https://www.h2-international.com/2020/02/17/130-hydrogen-filling-stations-by-2021/
Hydrogen from water electrolysis- netherlands
https://youtu.be/MjkD1raVv-M (This could be done in NZ but you would need deep pockets, and distant property boundaries, no neighbours etc)

tony9, Nov 21, 6:11pm
Not to mention LPG/CNG for mass market passenger vehicles.

motig, Nov 21, 11:01pm
Electric vehicles will continue untaxed. I think we all know that ICE vehicles will be subject to the same idea as smoking, taxed out of existence.

s_nz, Nov 22, 12:04am
Likely correct, but would result in even more paperwork? - Change the law to require a scan report or photograph of readout with every fuel tax refund claim.

s_nz, Nov 22, 12:25am
Depends what ICE you compare to.

Leaf is rated at 17.2 kWh /km. at 17c/kWh this works out to $2.92/100km + $7.60 RUC = $10.52/100km.

Yaris hybrid is rated at 3.3L/100km. At $2/L of 91 this works out to $6.60/100km.

Clearly the Yaris hybrid is way cheaper to run (in terms of fuel & road tax) than a leaf paying current RUC's. This is because the leaf is paying 3 times the road tax off the yaris hybrid.

Standard maintenance on something like a Yaris hybrid while more than a leaf is unlikely to dramatically alter above costs.

And of course the big issue for EV's is the high capital cost. A new Yaris hybrid starts at $28k. Cheapest New EV in NZ is the MG ZS EV at $50k.

Sure they are in different classes, but there is no EV to compete direct head with the yaris hatch for say a long distance city commuter.

And we need people to buy new EV's rather than cheap imports from japan as we are not super far from maxing out used imports from that market. Three years ago there were 15,299 EV's registred in japan. Clearly not enough to replace the 200,000+ cars we import a year

stevo2, Nov 22, 6:18am
To put it simply, The Government (like any business) needs income to carry on. A shitload of their income comes from tax on fuel as fuel cost is made up of near 50% tax.
As more Electric or Hydrogen vehicles hit our roads, the point will come that the Govt is not making the money it needs to survive therefore they will need to get that money from somewhere. The easiest and fairest is the user pays system which means road user charges but they dont want to do that yet as they are trying to encourage the uptake of clean and green vehicles

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