". Thompson has at least 140 convictions, mostly for fraud in both New Zealand and Australia. " !
( In contrast the prominent car dealers who regularly post in this MB are a great advertisement for their profession.)
tgray,
Nov 4, 9:24am
I thought to be RMVT, you cannot have criminal convictions? It is something that is asked on the application.
mals69,
Nov 4, 9:26am
They look to give out dealer licences easy if he could get one with all his previous fraud charges.
So Autoterminal supply the cars to the dealer, once sold the dealer keeps his profit and then pays Autoterminal for the cars ? What percentage of car yards would work this way ?
tgray,
Nov 4, 11:02am
It is probably more common than you think.
supern0va,
Nov 4, 12:35pm
When I used to sell motorbikes we'd get new stock this way. They'd charge you interest on the outstanding amount, on the basis when you sell, the loan is paid back in full. They relied on us doing a monthly audit ( so potentially you could rob Peter to pay Paul ) but they often did random audit visits.
kazbanz,
Nov 4, 1:00pm
There are a fair few dealers with either floor plan -Which is where a finance company holds a security over $#### worth of their stock. OR have stock on consignment from suppliers -so they pay for them as they can or when they sell. OR a funny combination of both where the overseas supplier owns the stock until you pay for it. OR some suppliers give a dealer a "stretch" to pay for the cars. So you have say 2 months to pay for the car. By the sound of things in this case Auto terminal were allowing the dealer to act as a sort of "park n sell" for their cars. So once the car sold so the paperwork was released to the dealer. All of which means at any time your cars could be plucked if you don't do exactly whats dictated to you. Thank gosh for owning all our stock.
xs1100,
Nov 4, 1:02pm
you would be surprised at how many work the OB system,but normally need payment before releasing dereg papers
mals69,
Nov 4, 1:19pm
Cheers Super, Kaz and XS for the good info.
westwyn,
Nov 4, 1:58pm
It's VERY common- and part of the reason why I've often commented that thngs like auction sheets and compliance sheets simply aren't available from the selling dealer. Two scenarios:
-the Dealer acts as an "agent" for the wholesale supplier (IBC/Autoterminal, Nichibo, SBL, Heiwa etc) who keeps the Dealership stocked- more often than not the stock mix is detemined by the wholesaler, along with the profit margin required (which is again, why a lot of Dealers are less able to discount than others). The security on the stock is usually the MR2A, which is released ONLY to the Dealer upon sale, and all related paperwork (compliance, source etc) is held by the wholesaler. The Dealer gets to keep any margin on products sold, like finance, insurance and warranties (which in many cases is the ONLY profit margin derived).
-Or- the stock is supplied to the Dealer as part of a trade agreement, the Dealer chooses what they want, and effectively "purchases" the vehicle with payment deferred until sale (at which point of time, the MR2A is supplied to allow registration, but only upon production of payment by the Dealer to the Wholesaler). Usually an interest component- per car- is calculable after the first month or so payable by the Dealer. This is the more common of the two scenarios.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 4, 4:19pm
I am strongly against over-regulation, however there is something wrong with a system that lets someone with that many convictions sell motor vehicles let alone be an owner/trader.
As I have said before. The industry is a mess. I regularly visit used car yards with buyers and have been appalled to see the majority (yes majority here in Tauranga) try to mislead or defraud customers.
They need a BIG cleanup.
Despite the cover offered by the CGA I am confident in saying that in my opinion, you are currently safer to buy privately than through a dealer. The amount of private sales I have been party to that have either involved attempted or successful fraud are far lower than that from car dealer sales I have been witness to.
buyit59,
Nov 4, 6:19pm
Been in the field for over 20 years and dealt with dealers and public . In my experience the vast majority of half truths or lies have been from private buyers or sellers . Recently told . "2 private owners and 1 dealer , not a rental , immaculate and no dings or accidents that I am aware of. ' turns out first owner ( for 4 or 5 months was rental , then had plate change with 2nd owner . No of course it want pranged ! ALL PEOPLE can tell fibs when there is $$ involved but most dealer's will have to stand behind his/her and has a reputation to maintain but a member of public is not so easy to be held to account.
tgray,
Nov 4, 6:26pm
Well I have bought hundreds (literally) of cars from the public and thousands (literally) from car dealers and am absolutely convinced through personal first hand experience that you are in fact wrong in your assumption.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 4, 6:27pm
tgray said a similar thing a while back, absolutely refusing to believe there was any reasonable level of corruption in the industry and also touting how long he had been in the "industry".
The thing is though. how often do you guys anonymously visit other dealers with a genuine buyer in tow?
In my opinion, if you are not doing that regularly (like I am) you won't have any clue what's happening out there.
Most of the dealers I have dealt with don't seem to give a hoot about accountability etc. (Like this guy above who is still in the industry! )
Doing things like trying to wriggle out of their legal CGA requirements seems to be standard practice with a significant proportion. Hang, have a sift through the advertisements on here and you will even find plenty trying to illegally get out of the consumer guarantees act before the vehicle is even sold! Not to mention doing it publically in their own advertisement!
It's always the same with dealers, whenever something like this is bought up, they close ranks and either try and discredit me or make soothing noises about it all.
tgray,
Nov 4, 7:26pm
I see the odd one, but to say that most dealers don't give a hoot is crazy.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 4, 7:39pm
Why? I have posted my survey results in past. What are yours?
tgray,
Nov 4, 7:54pm
This is my last post in this thread. Apart from my mother, there are very few people I trust in this world, the least being the general public and other car dealers. That said, in my 14 years of experience dealing with thousands of sellers, I would trust another car dealer over the general public any day. Again, I base this view on personal experience. I am 100% against dishonest car dealers and there have been more than one that I have "dobbed in" for being dishonest or down right fraudulent in their advertising. There is no excuse and it must not be tolerated. In my personal experience however, the vast majority of car dealers are abiding by the law and doing the right thing. Considering the volume of dealer to public sales in NZ each year that go without a hitch, is proof of this. If you go to a dealer with a pre conceived notion they are trying to rip you off, you will no doubt find a mistake or error that will support this pre conception. It is not however endemic of the industry and there are plenty of checks and balances weighted heavily in favour of the general public. I am no fool and this is not wishful thinking. I trust very few but speak from first hand experience over a number or years. I can honestly say the only people that have tried to 'rip me off' were members of the public. The dodgy dealers are largely gone from the industry now. That's a good thing, but there will always be a few that get through. It doesn't mean they represent the industry at large. Far from it. Bye for now.
kazbanz,
Nov 4, 8:26pm
tgray--ignore function works extremely well and its only when someone else responds you see the drivel--easier on the head.
electromic,
Nov 4, 9:35pm
Still dodgy dealers around, not many, last one I found was five years ago Went to look a stagea with a friend, dealer said no accident damage. It had mig welds along the rear wheel arch, not even filed flat, could only see it with the door open. The engine had a rattle, dealer said we put 91 petrol in it by mistake. It actually had a stretched timing chain. All up it had 13 faults. Dealer said "nah, it's sweet as" when asked to fix some of them. They wanted 15k for that car. Found one with no faults, half the kms, for a lower price in another yard in Hamilton.
captaink,
Nov 4, 11:27pm
So Jazz is a vehicle broker, regularly canvassing the majority of dealers in the Tauranga area. How come? on a basis of what is a suitable vehicle by his standards he has no reason to visit the majority of Dealers,they simply don't stock his vehicles so it is hard to see why given his limited range of suitable vehicles that his knowledge is so all encompassing or. is he chasing the odd Vitz/Tida ? Does the wriggling out of CGA obligations come before or after the purchase Jazz? If it is post purchase, Jazz, I take my hat off to you, you must be involved in a huge number of purchases, given a reasonable ratio of most modern vehicles being relatively trouble free that you are continually tied up with warranty claims and problems worthy of your status as a broker. or is it the type /brand of vehicles you target, man you must be advising on some shit cars If it is pre purchase, how do you wriggle out of something that hasn't happened?
thejazzpianoma,
Dec 7, 6:47am
That's a new one for the list! Let's see. I will file that between sandwich maker and committed mental patient.
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