I'm a first time 4x4 buyer in need of some expert advice. I need to buy a 4wd for use down quenstown way. I know sone of my requirements:
Must be able to seat at least six adults for family and group trips Needs to be able to handle mountain roads and snow obviously Needs to be able to forward rivers of abount knee depth in factory stock standard setup.
I have in mind either a Toyota Land Cruiser or Hilux Surf. Would either of these be an ok choice, or is there something better!
Auto trans is preferable, but not mandatory. Does it make much performance difference if I go petrol or diesel! My budget is up to 20k, and L'd like to buy at least late 90's or better yet >2000 if possible.
Any suggestions!
TIA
tnt423,
May 6, 9:12pm
Won't get 6 adults into a surf, would have to get a 7 seater Landcruiser or Safari.
msigg,
May 7, 12:07am
toyota prado. discovery,,mitsi 4x4 van
mm12345,
May 7, 12:47am
Nonsense.If you're on ordinary roads, then maybe some crossover thing is okay.But you will have neither the ground clearance or dead weight or tyres to cope with the heavy stuff - and possibly not even a transfer box with low range.Subarus and 4WDs get up the mountain fine, but if it ices up at the end of the day, then without chains they're about as useless as any 2WD car going down - and keep the local towies in business.And that's on ski-access roads - where they'll at least have a grader or snow plough working it.
The Japanese offroad type 4WD's in that price range are essentially "Dumb" 4WD systems. That sort of old fashioned setup works surprisingly well in the mud and steep slow offroad paddock type stuff. (Thats why old landrovers are exceptionally good offroad even by todays standards).
However when it comes to snow/ice on roads you need clever systems. Individual electronic control of brakes, torque spread etc is what makes the difference. European 4WD cars are designed for EXACTLY these conditions.
mm12345,
May 7, 12:53am
Snow climbing is easy.Getting down is the problem.If you lose traction going up, then you can usually plant the boot.If you try planting the boot going down, then not only do you need iron nerves, but you're likely to be on a path to disaster. Your advice might be fine for NI yuppies who go skiing at Ruapehu, but it doesn't answer the OP's question. Knee depth river crossings is another clue - that's likely to go over the sills on a crossover vehicle, and if you go up one of the roads and it's knee depth getting there, there's always the chance it's going to be bonnet depth on the way back.
thejazzpianoma,
May 7, 12:57am
See edit above. The Japanese "Dumb" type 4WD's have none of the clever systems required to help regain control going down an icy slope, they are the very worst vehicles in exactly the conditions you describe.
Knee deep crossings are no issue at all with the XC90 style vehicles I am suggesting. Clearly you have never driven these sorts of vehicles in those sorts of conditions.
thejazzpianoma,
May 7, 12:57am
See edit above. The Japanese "Dumb" type 4WD's have none of the clever systems required to help regain control going down an icy slope, they are the very worst vehicles in exactly the conditions you describe.
Knee deep crossings are no issue at all with the XC90 style vehicles I am suggesting. Clearly you have never driven these sorts of vehicles in those sorts of conditions.
To make it absolutely clear I am not saying buy a low car style vehicle I am just pointing out its all about the clever systems to keep you on the road. The likes of Audi etc put the same technology in their high clearance and low clearance vehicles and its available in the OP's price range.
Bottom line, its all about the right tool for the job. The Euro vehicles are designed for exactly the task the OP has in mind and they can also get more vehicle for their money.
sakofan,
May 7, 1:25am
Thanks everyone for the advice, looks like options are expanding
thejazzpianoma,
May 7, 1:27am
It would be a really good idea to go and drive some of these vehicles which may help narrow things down, some of the differences are very easy to spot.
Also. consider if running costs are a factor. Some of the good Euro Common Rail Diesels will offer you outstanding economy with very low maintenance and reliability. Running costs can easily be cut in half compared to some of the other options. This may be important if its your every day vehicle as well.
msigg,
May 7, 2:00am
Nothing beats a landcruiser.
zephyrheaven,
May 7, 3:12am
I hope your wallet is too, you will need it fat to pay for the repairs on all the cars jazzyjeff has fed you 8)
quater,
May 7, 3:37am
And you will never pass a gas station again.
berg,
May 7, 3:47am
Actually 3.1 Turbo DSL Trooper are pretty good on gas as bigish 4x4s go. Three guys at work have them plus I used to work on them as a mechanic for Holden. Good truck but for gods sake avoid the 3ltr 4jx1 engine as it can be quite problematic
grangies,
May 7, 3:54am
That video shows an obviously highly skilled driver, driving at high speeds on a thin snow ice track.
I'd love to see that Audi having to go slowly go through a mushy, snow covered road, full of bumps and dips, with snow coming up half way up it's wheels.
grangies,
May 7, 3:59am
550-650 k's per 75 liters of diesel.
The low buying price will cover any later model fuel savings 100 fold.
Those old Bighorns have stood the test of time. Look at how many are still around and haven't rusted away or been scrapped due to engine failure vs cost.
gedo1,
May 7, 4:00am
Servicing and any repair costs on something like a Landcruiser or Nissan Patrol or Pajero are smile makers. when you compare with those for some of the Euro 4x4's (real ones not crossovers) - they will make your jaw drop.Snow ice and mud! Any true off road capable 4x4 will handle it whether Euro, Japanese, or Korean. Stated from experience and association.So it should come down to what you prefer, especially where price is a factor.I notice you say your top price is $20k so suggesting one that has a starting price of $19,999 doesn't exactly respond to what you offer as information does it, really!Suggest you contact your local 4x4 club. They have a wealth of information and are extremely helpful people.
mm12345,
May 7, 4:06am
Suggesting (even though not mentioning by name) VW Tourareg (platform) or Merc ML class should be a capital offence - especially when the OP suggests a $20k budget.Google (properly) then run.
mm12345,
May 7, 4:09am
You're from Te Puke - right! You should really just zip it on threads like this.
gedo1,
May 7, 4:11am
I think that Utube video was shot at the Southern Hemisphere cold weather test track (Can't remember the exact name), located near Queenstown.What a coincidence that I was reading an older Top Gear New Zealand magazine earlier today and there it was.the exact run as filmed!The drivers are exactly as post # 17 by grangies guessed. professional drivers employed by Audi, altho they had one of Top Gear's journalists there with them who wrote up the storyApparently all the major car manufacturers come there for testing in our winter and the facility has been specially built for that purpose with a number of different and similar test circuits within the facility and with extremely tight security - it is privately owned.Makes heaps of money from the companies. Anyway, new Audis priced at (gulp) more than $20K so not a fair item to use for your decision.
mm12345,
May 7, 4:19am
I believe that Japanese manufacturers (car and snow tyre) use that track as well.The Koreans probably do too.Next minute the Chinese will be using it.
phillip.weston,
May 7, 4:27am
^^ I think it must have been shot in Germany as they are wearing German registration plates and are still LHD.
nightboss,
May 7, 4:32am
That was uncalled for.
trdbzr,
May 7, 4:34am
Are you his new bumboy!
grangies,
May 7, 4:35am
Wherever the track is .
The Audi was driven like a maniac,in a highly skilled manner, that does not happen on public snow covered roads.
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