Riiiiight. and we are going to shut down all the worlds wind, solar, hydro, geothermal and coal electricity generators why exactly!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 21, 4:56am
Good point. lets stop production of everything that contains a battery immediately!
Its incredibly inconvenient that the limited range of most current electric cars is still several times the typical average commute.
*facepalm*
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 21, 4:59am
Actually, modern steam engines are looking very promising for a number of reasons:
* New steam engines heat up almost immediatly * No lubricants are required at all * They run on a "closed loop" system so no topping up with water * They produce so much torque on the first revolution that no clutch is required * You don't need a starter motor * They are surprisingly compact.
But mostly.
External combustion engines are not fussy about what you run them on. Emissions can be nearly zero too. That's what you want when you are trying to make alternative local fuels viable.
grangies,
Jul 21, 5:15am
What is used to heat them almost immediately!
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 21, 5:17am
Its not about the fuel used its about the design that dosn't require a big boiler full of water to be heated at once.
There are a few promising designs both turbine and piston powered.
If you want to have a google, there is a (surprise) VW subsidiary that was building one in the 90's and I read something recently about another promising turbine style design.
NZTools,
Jul 21, 5:34am
One of the biggest issues that will arrise when the easy oil is all gone, is not the finacial cost of extracting a barrel of oil, but the energy cost. If it takes more than a barrel of oil to get a barrel of oil, there is no point in extracting it.
A company was touting the benefits of of biofuel produced from canola in the mackenzie basin a few years ago. They proudly stated that they ran all their utes on it, What they didnt tell the reporter, was that they couldnt run all all ther tractors, trucks and havesting eqipment on it as well, or they would have nothing left to sell.
ie burning a 1000 litres of diesel to produce a 1000 litres of biodiesel
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 21, 5:40am
The cost of extraction has already risen, especially with shoal oil.
However. you need to be a bit careful when considering the energy cost to produce other fuels.
For example, if you have an abundant non-portable energy source it can still make sense to use that energy to produce a portable energy product like biofuel even if the energy costs several times as much to produce in energy than what it ultimately yields.
To make up a fictitious example. say you had an abundant source of geothermal energy that was just going to waste. If you could use that heat to produce some sort of bacteria biofuel would it matter how efficient the rate of conversion was (within reason).
I agree with your example though. don't get me wrong. Its important to do the math and some fuel production is certainly not worth while like you rightly point out.
morrisman1,
Jul 21, 10:29pm
We will already have a solution, but we dont know what it is because the oil companies will own it and will hold onto it for a 'rainy day'. I can almost guarantee it.
gunhand,
Jul 21, 10:39pm
Look around you, everything pretty much took oil to produce. We asked for it and want it, we got it, it will run out at the rate we use it some time. Oil takes thousands of years of process to get to what it is and we not allowing that to happen. However the Oil companys wont be worried. Do you think they are not working on alternatives! Or do think that when it did run they will just close up shop and lie on the beach in the sun! And gangs running about with guns! plenty of oil about and thats going on now LOL.
studio1,
Jul 21, 10:47pm
Indeed. When Rudolph Diesel built his first engine it ran on peanut oil. Most mechanically injected diesel engines will run extremely well on vegetable oils. I have successfully run both my vehicles on used canola oil over the last 5 years without a problem.
lookoutas,
Jul 21, 11:06pm
Haven't you lot ever watched Ironman!
NZTools,
Jul 21, 11:24pm
Vegatableoils are all good, untill you consider the area need ie crop size, to keep one vehicle running for a year. It simply doesnt stack up, plus, land that is need to grow canola etc for biofules, is currently being used to put food on your table. Vegatable based bio fuels, can only ever be small scale, unless you want to see food prices go through the roof.
3tomany,
Jul 21, 11:30pm
our trucks and tractors will run on alternatives making food plentifull, so much energy is wasted wind, sun, algie all wasted because oil is to cheap. when large industries are mass producing the infristucture to harvest free energy that option will become cost effective.
big.b-lil.c,
Jul 22, 1:00am
im off to the gun shop to stock up on ammo just in case
elect70,
Jul 22, 1:03am
Nuclearpellet!
elect70,
Jul 22, 1:11am
Any remaining oil will be used only for manufacture of essential items ,vehicles will have to usebiofuelsor otherscource, butthearearequired to growthem is astronomicalfor even10% of the worlds fleet .all ofafrica would need to be planted incrops .I can see nuke power comming into its own, a nuke pelletgenerating steam possibly, beenlooked atbut containment issues arehard part
mrsdoobercoons,
Jul 22, 2:43am
We've got a good example of resource depletion in New Zealand with Rimu and Kauri.
It was known that they would "run out" from the 1900's, so replacement species were sought and the industry adapted.By the time rimu finished being clearcut in 80's no one really noticed the change, but we build houses quite differently to what we did in 1900.The same will happen with oil.
New fuels and motive power systems will evolve and we will still have vehicles, but they will be increasingly different to what we have today, and we'll probably be using them differently too.
My take on it is that we are currently about the same place in the transition as the building industry was in 1930's to 40's.We were building the first houses out of pine and they weren't too flash.Fifty years later we're getting it sorted out and have kept going forward.Graeme.
nzdoug,
Jul 22, 10:38am
When oil runs out heat overcomes friction then meltdown or explosion.
jason18,
Jul 22, 6:01pm
I'm burning my share now!
3tomany,
Jul 22, 10:04pm
yip im told oil is bad for the evironment so the sooner we get rid off it the better, i will do my bit
monaro17,
Jul 23, 3:24am
I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if it's been said. But you can't tell me that in this day of age where we can do MANY things that we don't have the ways and means to create a substitute that can burn in an internal combustion engine. It's just madness- the oil companies rule the world ;)
bellky,
Jul 23, 3:29am
Oh 'we' can and do, ever heard of ethanol! It can be made from many plants but corn mostly. It's still more expensive than getting oil from the ground at the moment, and you have the added negative that once you use a crop for fuel, you drive food prices up.
monaro17,
Jul 23, 3:34am
I believe hydrogen fuel is the way forward. the most abundant element + no emissions other than water vapour + decent power
bellky,
Jul 23, 3:36am
Yes^ but hydrogen isn't actually that cheap to make (I mean make available for automotive use), and hydrogen fuel cells are even more expensive.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
bellky,
Jul 23, 3:39am
Personally I think cars will end up electric.
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